boog123

You guys must be getting worried about the results. A little early peek maybe?

Bill Lumberg

Don't hate the playa, hate the GAME.

Bill Lumberg

You guys? I am not an ALPA rep or work for them at all. I threw in a DPA card awhile back actually. I just think this TA is a good deal right now, and I am giving my opinion on things that some on here aren't really thinking about, like the economy around the World and troubles in our own industry. Let me guess, you are a part of the vocal minority? Probably.

DeadHead

Awwww bless your precious heart.

newKnow

Are you saying you KNOW we can't do better?

Bill Lumberg

Back atcha!

Bill Lumberg

So, you're willing to gamble that we can? You are saying that all of the professional negotiators, all of the people involved in the process, that were there, besides our own pilot negotiators, are WRONG? That's what you are saying, you don't believe any of them, right?

I think there is a chance we could get more, but a small chance. I think that chance is a lot like the last time we negotiated, in the JCBA. Like that one, I think we would get less. It's always a gamble, but to think that the ALPA people working on this took the first offer on the first day is ridiculous.

I was mad myself a month ago, thinking we would get more and we deserved more, especially when I first saw the TA. Then, I calmed down and actually looked around me, asked some questions, and realized that this was a 3 year contract, and it could be just an extension. It might have been lacking a bit, but overall it was good, and it builds on what we want to do, with only 3 years in duration. I am not willing to gamble that away on a hunch that maybe we could get more. I think our management team is smarter than that, and they would have that "plan B" that some are saying, including the negotiators. If you want to gamble away a good deal (not great), during these yet again uncertain times economically around the World, then do it. I won't.

Carl Spackler

Whether they were right or wrong is immaterial Bill. ALL of those people you list work FOR us. It is OUR opinion that matters...NOT THEIRS. That's our union's structure...bottom-up. My reps have clearly stated that the process was subverted and the TA did not meet what the pilots stated they wanted in both scope and pay. I don't know why the MEC admins and the NC did what they did, but they are NOT the bosses in this process ... WE ARE.

If we as the bosses of this union (through our elected local reps) think it's wrong, then it IS wrong. The opinions of the professional negotiators, the NC and the MEC admins are fine, but they aren't nearly as important as the opinion of the line pilots who ostensibly run things. Mr. O'Malley can minimize the pilots' survey results by stating: "the pilots wishes in that survey are out of context", but I believe he does so at his peril. He would NEVER have made such a statement prior to the survey being sent out. In fact he said just the opposite. But when the results came in stronger than he hoped, now our wishes are out of context.

Again, they all have a right to their opinions, but they aren't the bosses.

Carl

Bill Lumberg

So, if you were on trial for something, and your lawyer thought you had better accept something because he knows the judge, knows the other lawyers, and was in the Judge's quarters listening to him speak, you would tell him to shove it if he gave you his own advice? I guess you would. I was angry like you before this TA, but then decided ALPA was involved in the process, knows what is "going on", and would try to get the best deal for us, since it affects them too. Their "sale" of this to you is what happened in the negotiating room, and they know what will happen next. If you don't believe them, then don't.

DLpilot

If you think the economy will nose dive, do you really want a TA that requires less pilots. Slowplay posted earlier that in the end the work rule changes will require 175 less pilots. This does not inlcude early outs because those guys would be retiring in a short time anyway. I don't care about getting a marginal raise if it means that we need less pilots. Heck we have already dropped by 400 pilots since the merger.