Delta TA Passes
07-01-2012 | 09:25 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,039
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From: 7ERB
You are a bitter irrational man. I will make $800 more next month than I would have had you won the day. We will be reducing the number of RJs, and you will soon have a 717 that you might be able to fly captain on for, which I might add, will pay more than a 747 at other airlines. It was a pure unemotional business decision.
As far as your testicular comment, that is the last kind of argument that one who has no argument can make. The DAL pilots won, despite your best efforts. Thank goodness.
As far as your testicular comment, that is the last kind of argument that one who has no argument can make. The DAL pilots won, despite your best efforts. Thank goodness.
I was AGAINST. Maybe I am delusional or misinformed (I went over and above with deciphering the TA, thus proud of my vote). I accept the fact that the majority of my peers accepted this TA. I will be ok with that decision and move on positively as a good little Delta employee. I dont think DPA is the answer to anything either.
My concern is still:
1) The exploitation of section 1. Whether it happens now or in 3 years. I have a strong gut feeling that the 76 seaters will eventually morph into 90 seaters. I dont think the 4-8-3-3 is worth the continual degradation of our careers.
2) My opinion is that 4-8-3-3 is going to be the new Delta standard. Whether you believe it or not. We just gave management a plethora of relief for "measly" pay. Basically, they know that the Delta pilots will never ask for anything more than COLA. What is that pay, when you factor in the cost of living and taxes? Is it worth the continual outsourcing of our careers? I guess to 62% of my co-workers, it is.
Respectfully and as a good team-member I will never say,"I told you so",
TEN
07-01-2012 | 09:25 AM
#52
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
We leave ALPA eventually. It's mathematical certainty. ALPA is 38 airlines with only 2 majors represented. If only one more major airline leaves then CAPA will represent more airline pilots than ALPA. ALPA will represent all the regionals and CAPA will represent all the majors.
In hindsight, my oversimplification of the delta ta vote is that the average age of the delta pilots is around 53ish. The company knows this and threw some money towards them gaining the necessary votes. These guys aren't trying to gain or prove anything. They just want more money before they retire. From that standpoint the agreement is "good" to them. But simple logic would dictate that this type of contract cannot be repeated, although it has, because eventually we will be jobless.
In hindsight, my oversimplification of the delta ta vote is that the average age of the delta pilots is around 53ish. The company knows this and threw some money towards them gaining the necessary votes. These guys aren't trying to gain or prove anything. They just want more money before they retire. From that standpoint the agreement is "good" to them. But simple logic would dictate that this type of contract cannot be repeated, although it has, because eventually we will be jobless.
And as a 51 year old, the main thing that sold me on this agreement was the scope win. There is NOTHING in THAT for me, but it was the right thing to do for the younger guys. The money was good, but not great, and the DC addition leaves a lot to be desired. So why don;t you back off throwing rocks at the old guys before you really know why they voted the way they did...
07-01-2012 | 09:32 AM
#53
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
Fair enough T,
I was AGAINST. Maybe I am delusional or misinformed (I went over and above with deciphering the TA, thus proud of my vote). I accept the fact that the majority of my peers accepted this TA. I will be ok with that decision and move on positively as a good little Delta employee. I dont think DPA is the answer to anything either.
My concern is still:
1) The exploitation of section 1. Whether it happens now or in 3 years. I have a strong gut feeling that the 76 seaters will eventually morph into 90 seaters. I dont think the 4-8-3-3 is worth the continual degradation of our careers.
2) My opinion is that 4-8-3-3 is going to be the new Delta standard. Whether you believe it or not. We just gave management a plethora of relief for "measly" pay. Basically, they know that the Delta pilots will never ask for anything more than COLA. What is that pay, when you factor in the cost of living and taxes? Is it worth the continual outsourcing of our careers? I guess to 62% of my co-workers, it is.
Respectfully and as a good team-member I will never say,"I told you so",
TEN
I was AGAINST. Maybe I am delusional or misinformed (I went over and above with deciphering the TA, thus proud of my vote). I accept the fact that the majority of my peers accepted this TA. I will be ok with that decision and move on positively as a good little Delta employee. I dont think DPA is the answer to anything either.
My concern is still:
1) The exploitation of section 1. Whether it happens now or in 3 years. I have a strong gut feeling that the 76 seaters will eventually morph into 90 seaters. I dont think the 4-8-3-3 is worth the continual degradation of our careers.
2) My opinion is that 4-8-3-3 is going to be the new Delta standard. Whether you believe it or not. We just gave management a plethora of relief for "measly" pay. Basically, they know that the Delta pilots will never ask for anything more than COLA. What is that pay, when you factor in the cost of living and taxes? Is it worth the continual outsourcing of our careers? I guess to 62% of my co-workers, it is.
Respectfully and as a good team-member I will never say,"I told you so",
TEN
As to the pay.. I think the 3,3 part will be modified before we ever get there because of further industry consolidation. That will open the contract again. But even if not, I would take 4/8.5/3/3 on the next contract in a heartbeat. But stay tuned. The problem is that we have no one to pattern off of, and I don't think anybody will pass us prior to that next consolidation event. THAT worries me a little. So what that leaves is the cherry picking of UPS and FedEx to pattern from. (SWA is not included in my thoughts here because I firmly believe they are gonna get a mediocre (even by some standards expressed HERE) contract..
Lastly. DPA is destructive. They serve zero beneficial purpose.
PS. You DO know that my argument was aimed at Bacon Bits and not you, right?
07-01-2012 | 10:24 AM
#54
Banned
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 623
Likes: 0
From: DAL
However, if warranted, I will say "I told you so" as much as necessary to ensure we don't bend ourselves over like this ever again.
07-01-2012 | 10:26 AM
#56
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
DPA provided nothing but division during Sec 6 and the TA ratification window. TC e-mailed a classless comparison of our TA to a forced abortion, then back pedalled like crazy.
Geez, can't let facts get in the way now can we?
Geez, can't let facts get in the way now can we?
07-01-2012 | 10:26 AM
#57
Looking for a laugh
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Likes: 0
Either way, does it really matter? This PWA will never get to 2015. There will be a JBCA before then with whomever we next merge with.
07-01-2012 | 10:40 AM
#58
Looking for a laugh
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Likes: 0
You do know that constant "I told you so" only diminishes your credibility and causes your target audience to discredit your message and tune you out.
07-01-2012 | 11:31 AM
#59
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
Absolutely correct sir. Bacon's "credibility" (as I said before, he is simply a bitter irrational man) is suspect for precisely the reasons you mentioned.
07-01-2012 | 11:47 AM
#60
Banned
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
You are a DPA proponent, do you truly believe that holding a contemptuous attitude towards the pilots you want DPA to represent will garner support for your group among the pilots you hold in such low regard?
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