Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1228405)

Wait, you guys all said that the 100 seat jet was going to get sold out on this negotiation. So after you were completely wrong, now you have an absolute prediction for the next negotiation. I mean you said at least 1,000 times about how the 100 seaters were in play in this negotiation and now that they are definitively at mainline, now well, it is just around the corner that they are in play again. You say ALPA plays the fear game?

When did Delta start getting 76 seat jets? When were you hired? How many pilots has Delta hired/recalled/come back from Mil Leave since 2007? What about all the other major airlines? Combined?

If American has this great scope clause that protects jobs, whey do they have 1,900 pilots on furlough? Why have they been furloughed for 10+ years now? In the last 10 years, how many 76 jets have been placed at American? Continental?

It seems to me that you deal in a never ending fear campaign about what is going to happen next, without ever looking at what is happening right now. We just signed this deal for more 76 seat jets. Do you want to take a wager on who hires pilots next Delta or United or American? How about how many are hired?

It just seems to me that you have learned all the wrong lessons, you are hyper focused on one detail and ignore everything else around you. You pride yourself as being some grand thinker who connects the dots, but in the end you view the world through a soda straw and have let this one issue dominate your entire thinking.

You talk about not defending the language or having the language fail. Give examples and then show how that impacted Delta pilot jobs. It seems that all the ex-RJ drivers have an obsession about what they left behind and what is happening to those pilots who are still flying RJ's. This obsession has clouded your thinking until you can no longer make a rational analysis of what is happening. In your world, you count up 76 seat jets and whoever has the lowest number wins. In my view, it is what creates more jobs and what creates better jobs for mainline.

Airlines like American that have followed your strategy are not succeeding and their pilots are not benefiting from that strategy. Do you have any explanation for that? We lead the industry in rebuilding the profession and adding jobs in the last 5 years, and yet you say our strategy is failing? Why?

Originally Posted by Doug Masters (Post 1228415)

DALPA (LD specifically) has told me not to compare us to SWA, therfore, don't compare us to AA and CAL. Its a two way street.

Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg (Post 1228045)

I don't think it matters. I thought there was one loophole, the Republic loophole that allowed planes to be flown at another airline over the MTOW or 76 seats, that being Frontier. I thought the new contract didn't allow other feeders to have larger planes or it risked their feed contracts. FtB still probably thinks I work for Air Grand Canyon, but in reality I don't carry the contract on me, so I come here to ask smarty pants guys like him.

Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg (Post 1228289)

Sorry, but I am not management or ALPA, so stating it like that shows that it is my opinion. As far as specifics in the contract, I know basically what it says, but leave the specifics to guys like ACL.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1228475)

ya'll get this?

IF YOU DON'T ALLOW MORE JUMBO RJ'S YOUR JOB IS IN JEOPARDY AND THE AIRLINE GOES THE WAY OF AMERICAN AND CONTINENTAL... wait continental?

Anyways, follow the logic. Just imagine how many more jobs we'd have if we let those 76 seaters become 82 seaters? Or let DCI have larger jets like the E190!!!!

I mean does anyone doubt that a regional could fly 717s cheaper than us since pilot costs are the only costs that matters when comparing us with DCI?

Which is ironic since you get chastised for thinking that 100 seaters are next...



But on that note, ACL or 'you guys', I never remember ACL saying we were going to sell 100 seaters out on this negotiation, do ya'll?

I'd think I'd seen that if it was posted 1,000 times.

Now, the winner would be the person who said we'd outsource 70 more 76-seaters but that's not what's important.

What is important now is we get some more large RJ outsourcing going so that we don't end up in chapter 11 and furlough!

Outsourcing equals more jobs so let's celebrate that we held the lie at 76 seats! no wait, that makes no sense. start again. RJs are good for Delta pilots!!!!

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1228540)

Now.. EVERYBODY is included.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1228405)

Wait, you guys all said that the 100 seat jet was going to get sold out on this negotiation. So after you were completely wrong, now you have an absolute prediction for the next negotiation. I mean you said at least 1,000 times about how the 100 seaters were in play in this negotiation and now that they are definitively at mainline, now well, it is just around the corner that they are in play again. You say ALPA plays the fear game?

When did Delta start getting 76 seat jets? When were you hired? How many pilots has Delta hired/recalled/come back from Mil Leave since 2007? What about all the other major airlines? Combined?

If American has this great scope clause that protects jobs, whey do they have 1,900 pilots on furlough? Why have they been furloughed for 10+ years now? In the last 10 years, how many 76 jets have been placed at American? Continental?

It seems to me that you deal in a never ending fear campaign about what is going to happen next, without ever looking at what is happening right now. We just signed this deal for more 76 seat jets. Do you want to take a wager on who hires pilots next Delta or United or American? How about how many are hired?

It just seems to me that you have learned all the wrong lessons, you are hyper focused on one detail and ignore everything else around you. You pride yourself as being some grand thinker who connects the dots, but in the end you view the world through a soda straw and have let this one issue dominate your entire thinking.

You talk about not defending the language or having the language fail. Give examples and then show how that impacted Delta pilot jobs. It seems that all the ex-RJ drivers have an obsession about what they left behind and what is happening to those pilots who are still flying RJ's. This obsession has clouded your thinking until you can no longer make a rational analysis of what is happening. In your world, you count up 76 seat jets and whoever has the lowest number wins. In my view, it is what creates more jobs and what creates better jobs for mainline.

Airlines like American that have followed your strategy are not succeeding and their pilots are not benefiting from that strategy. Do you have any explanation for that? We lead the industry in rebuilding the profession and adding jobs in the last 5 years, and yet you say our strategy is failing? Why?

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 1228542)

How is it that you come on here to ask questions and defer to FTB and Acl on the specifics, AFTER THE TA PASSED? Aren't you supposed to do that before you vote? :confused:

Seriously. Before the vote, you basically called every no voter an idiot for not seeing the light and voting "yes" for what you called a no brainer/slam dunk, win-win for the pilots, TA. You were absolutely certain of it. Now a few weeks later you come on here with a bunch of "I don't think's," "I thought's," and "I defer to the smarty pants guys." Huh? :confused:

Shouldn't we be able to defer to you and ask you the questions now?

New K :confused:

Originally Posted by Doug Masters (Post 1228549)

Kinda like our code share / joint venture / DCI smorgasboard?;)

Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg (Post 1228551)

Great post. The fear campaign continues while black helicopters fly overhead. You are absolutely correct, everyone tries to look ahead two steps, and can't see what is happening now. Poor situational awareness.