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Cycle Pilot 08-21-2012 03:24 PM

Delta's FOM does not allow jumpseaters to sit in the back without a reciprocal jumpseat agreement. So, at Delta, allowing a pilot to jumpseat in the cabin without a reciprocal jumpseat agreement is going against our FOM and opens one up to enforcement action from the Company and/or the FAA.

ShyGuy 08-22-2012 06:21 PM


Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1249232)
It isn't just a union thing, its an Ops manual thing, signed off by the FAA. Taking unauthorized flight deck jumpseat riders just because you want to be cool, even if its "just some silly technicality" is a BFD. You are not only risking your ticket, but the ability of your airline to even have reciprocal jumpseat agreements. You are risking it for everyone just trying to be a laid back hero to one person that shouldn't even be there in the first place, and knows they shouldn't, but is there anyway just to see if they can put it on you to risk your job and your company's ability to have jumpseaters just so that they can get one free ride.

Check your ops manual. The last, lowest class of authorized flight deck personnel. CASS approved, PIC approval. What does your say? I'd be surprised to see a "Recip Jumpseat Agreement" as a requirement. That's the whole point of CASS, secured cockpit access system. Recip jumpseat agreements are signed usually between union jumpseat committees.

gloopy 08-22-2012 07:07 PM


Originally Posted by ShyGuy (Post 1250032)
Check your ops manual. The last, lowest class of authorized flight deck personnel. CASS approved, PIC approval. What does your say? I'd be surprised to see a "Recip Jumpseat Agreement" as a requirement. That's the whole point of CASS, secured cockpit access system. Recip jumpseat agreements are signed usually between union jumpseat committees.

Just checked. Must be on the recip list as per the FOM.

flyandive 08-22-2012 09:32 PM

It's up to the individual airlines, some airlines actually do have language in their manuals specifically allowing Part 135 pilots to ride in the cabin only. So as an Ameriflight pilot it's up to you to find out who you can ride on.

dxBrian 08-22-2012 09:33 PM

Can't somebody give the guy a straight answer?

Amerijet, as a CASS participant, has a CASS Administrator who is responsible for maintaining the CASS data base for the company. That includes adding qualified employees, updating files as necessary and removing those who are no longer qualified for whatever reason.

It is probably one of the pilots or perhaps someone who works in the Chief Pilot's Office. The CPO should be able to tell you who it is. Just ask him (or her) if he has added you to the data base.

Also, for your information, there is a list of airlines/aviation companies that consider participation in CASS as a reciprocal agreement. Your Administrator should be able to give you that list.

XtremeF150 08-22-2012 10:18 PM

You didn't even use to need CASS to ride in the back? Now the actual j/s of course, but if someone clears security like everyone else then where is the security breach?
I understand wanting to follow the manuals but I think that is something that our companies have set up that was not an actual FAR but as written did receive FAA approval per the manuals so I understand where guys are coming from with that one but if it was a FAR, SWA wouldn't accomadate all these guys.

I know they do though because I worked for a non CASS carrier before and they still allowed cabin only j/s for us.

Cycle Pilot 08-22-2012 11:59 PM


Originally Posted by XtremeF150 (Post 1250146)
You didn't even use to need CASS to ride in the back? Now the actual j/s of course, but if someone clears security like everyone else then where is the security breach?
I understand wanting to follow the manuals but I think that is something that our companies have set up that was not an actual FAR but as written did receive FAA approval per the manuals so I understand where guys are coming from with that one but if it was a FAR, SWA wouldn't accomadate all these guys.

I know they do though because I worked for a non CASS carrier before and they still allowed cabin only j/s for us.

It just depends on the airline. When I was at Skywest, we could take jumpseaters in the cabin without an agreement. At Delta, we can't.

Purple Drank 08-23-2012 09:00 AM

FOM says only recip can ride. But no list of recip airlines. FAIL.

How in the hell are we supposed to know who is and isn't allowed?

gloopy 08-23-2012 09:05 AM


Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1250295)
FOM says only recip can ride. But no list of recip airlines. FAIL.

How in the hell are we supposed to know who is and isn't allowed?

There is a list on dlnet. You can check it pretty quickly at the gate, or print one out every year or so (and if someone says "we were just added" then a quick verification would take 2 minutes).

ShyGuy 08-23-2012 01:54 PM

Recip jumpseat agreements are typically agreed upon by union jumpseat committee members, management isn't really in this.


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