Kellwolf

So, what's being done towards getting a union/CBA on property? It's all well and good to point fingers and blame everyone, but it's just a bunch of ranting in the dark if there's no progress being made. I've heard "that ship has sailed" on multiple occasions, yet history has plenty of instances where a union vote failed only to pass a short time later. So, when's the next organizing drive? Is it already under way?

JBPA

You think I was 'bashing' him? Wow. Some (most) of you guys wouldn't have lasted 30 seconds in Naval Aviation.

I've been here over 10 years and have seen how our management and pilots operate. First of all, there's no way you'd get an average of $1000 out of 80% of our pilots. No f'ing way. That one assessment would only be the beginning! And while I would've (and did, albeit less $$ back then) broken out my pocketbook in a heartbeat 4 years ago for the JBPA drive, there's NO WAY I support an in-house now after seeing how fervently mgmt fought both the JBPA and ALPA drives. Based on the many debacles regarding pay, bennies, and FSM revisions over the last 4 years do you actually think the company would negotiate in good faith with an anemic in-house full of minimally trained pseudo sycophants?

Predictably there are now company apologist pilots appearing out of the woodwork touting the need for an in-house. These are the same fools, er, folks who sold us down the river during the last two drives. Too little, too late. Buh bye.

Quite honestly there are at least a dozen other glaring reasons why an in-house won't work at JB. I'd welcome SWAPA involvement and assistance any day. But frankly, it takes two to tango. And Barger and company ain't anywhere close to matching Kelleher and Kelly when it comes to integrity and caring.

Our management will earn the union it deserves. They've proven over the last four years that it won't be an in house.

windrider

FYI...we aren't in the Navy! Glad to see you think so highly of your fellow aviators. Must be a Navy thing??

Herkulesdrvr

What he just said times 10 haha. I guess I had hurt some feelings earlier and was also surprised how personal some take things. Its business, no hard feeling towards anyone but geeze.

JBPA

Honestly, based on the devolution of pretty much all aspects of being a JB pilot, I actually don't think too highly of the majority (58% by last count) of my 'fellow' aviators. Hoping to change my opinion but not overly optimistic.

However, my initial comment was more of a reflection on the general 'thin skin' of the average Joe Q. Airline pilot. I was waxing nostalgic on how that weakness would be exploited and summarily squashed in a Navy ready room; most likely during Primary. Perhaps the major airline 'warrior mentality' is reserved exclusively for management.

Seems that guys are more caught up with having their feelings hurt by their so-called peers than they are with being taken advantage of by 'servant management' who impress them with the ability to read 'Mike' in super large letters from their company ID's.

I know this ain't the Navy. I miss those days and most (not all) of the people.

Ernst Kessler

Your the one who is getting emotional here. Cool off man, we are on the same team.

My post was just simply to inquire of information from my co-workers whom I do happen to respect.

My apologies for the public math, I was merely using my TEM tool kit and "thinking out loud." 80% of 2500 is 2000 (we are growing). $100 x 2,000 pilots is $200,000. I see you got my point. Here comes some more, don't spill your coffee. If a JBPA is voted in, and 95% of the pilots join (likely) that's 2,375 members. If each pays 1% of their salary at an average of $11,000 income per month (for example FO's $8,000 and CA's $14,000) that's $110 per month per person, and a total of $261,250 per month! ...or essentially a 1/4 million per month.

Seems to me that would employ several full time lawyers, buy plenty of line pilots on full and partial buy outs, and force our union to cut out the wasted spending that many were disgusted with ALPA over.


Now here's my final mental math, if those numbers aren't good enough....double it. Change the 1% to 2% which is what ALPA is.

This is $261,250-$522,500 operating income EACH MONTH!

In my humble opinion, it just seems that a union tailored to fit a specific group will be best in the long run with a slow start yet solid foundation.

Thoughts?

SkiBum112

It's okay. We don't think too highly of the military pilots either. We know you miss those days, all you guys ever do is talk about it. Too bad you're just another bus driver now, so accept it and move on. Thanks for serving, but don't expect me to bow down to your percieved superior ability.

JBPA

I'm not emotional. I'm all business.

Quick question: were you here for JBPA1? I ask because many scenarios were discussed using variations of your math above.

Start-up costs would likely require assessments of some multiple of $1000 average for each member. How are we going to train the various committee members and how much are we willing to spend to do it? Et cetera, et cetera.

These and many other issues were debated.

The real eye opener during the failed drive was management's reaction. They fought the in-house tooth and nail. And, of course, we had our own Band of Idiots collaborating with them as if the company's propaganda wasn't enough.

All this after Barger, in 2006 during an initial ALPA fact-finding mission by less than a dozen brave pilots, publicly stated that he "would write the check for an in-house union". Yeah right.

Barger felt he was kicked in the teeth and 6 years and 2 failed drives later and we've been collectively kicked in the keisters.

Have you paid attention to how 'nimble' the DR has been over the last 4-6 years? I have. There's no way mgmt wil negotiate with an anemic in-house teeming with untrained, inexperienced pseudo sycophants.

Are you familiar with FEX's storied unionization timeline? Or more recently AirTran?

I can't say I disagree with your last full paragraph. Sadly, we don't live in an ideal world and management has demonstrated repeatedly that they will not negotiate in good faith with an in-house union.

That ship has sailed (Navy reference?). I will not support an in house. I'm a yes for ALPA and there's no emotion...just business.

JBPA

I think you missed my point but thanks for reinforcing it.

I wouldn't expect anyone to bow down to me. Although it wouldn't surprise me if someone did since, sadly, we have a majority here who are ready and willing to bow down to management.

SkiBum112

No, I see your point (Reinforcing is a stretch). However, call me when you can tell the difference between a Falcon and an Emb-145.