While the east side contract is yukky, I don't think negotiations for a new pay rates has allure/leverage that the west guys might think.

If things remain the same, a relatively senior east first officer will be looking at a (re) upgrade here in just a few short years. Less than top captains will be looking at getting on the 330. Those pay rates are for sure, rather than the "maybe" a new TA might offer with questionable/nonexistent advancement prospects.

Plus, the longer they wait it out under the current situation, the more time east guys get to advance on their list. Even if you apply the Nic, or something similar, in two or three years, there will be a lot of attrition/advancement on the east side due to their demographics, and the SLI will be applied at that point, not five years ago. No way any deal will include a bump and flush. No precedent for it at all.

So you've got two options here, status quo and spend another gazillion dollars on lawyers, or try to work a deal that gets you some pay/QoL bumps, and a SLI with some conditions and restrictions. Try to capture at least some of the growth/attrition seats, because the west guys have zero now.

The east guys wanted a fence. They've WON that part, in practice, if not in name.

Nu

Lol, I wasn't serious because it is ridiculous proposition. One of the most respected arbitrators in the country, picked by the east pilots btw, spent 23 days of hearings and testimony to come up with our seniority list.

NuGuy you have identified the pulse of the East pilot group. Contracts and wages are temporary. Seniority lasts your entire career. What is the rush to give your seniority away when another merger, 911, breakup and possible Chapter 11 is just around the corner. DP likes the status quo, gives him greater breakup options if the AA deal fails. If USAPA agreed to the NIC there still would not be a contract for years, it is to the company's advantage. Age 67 1/2 could also happen. Meanwhile enjoy your next trip

How many of the top 517 guys are still working?

Thats still flawed logic though. Assume that all happens and these senior FOs won't ever make it higher than A320 captain with the Nic, whereas they'd be A330 captains without it.

Topped out current pay rates:
East A320 CA: $125/hr
East A330 CA: $160/hr
Delta A320 CA: $182/hr
Southwest 737 CA: $216/hr

Seems to me like a combined contract, using the Nic, would still put east pilots in a better position. $160/hr A320 CA should be easily achievable in a new contract (its only 13% higher than current west rates). You've now created a situation where you'll be making the same amount of money but at a much lower required seniority with much more plentiful availability. And you can do it without killing your 60+ yearold body flying across the pond.

Plus you'll have better work rules, better vacation, all the other things that go along with getting rid of LOA 93... and those 767 and 330 CA spots with even higher pay rates to maybe obtain someday.

Bottom line: Who really cares if a couple west guys get to fly the A330? Good on them. You could make more as a A320 captain, with a better contract, if you accepted the Nic, then you could as an A330 captain now.

Then the east pilots will come back and say they want a staple.

That attitude isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

So are you saying the west starts from the compromise list, the Nic. and the east starts from doh? Don't you see what a preposterous question this is?

Probably almost all of them since age 65 hasnt taken hold.

I'm saying that nobody is making any progress whatsoever from their current positions so its time to start moving towards some mutually agreeable solution, not moving in the other direction.

Lol, that is a good one.