Seaslap8

No, they do not deserve credit for going back on their word.

In the end it really was not the Nic per se that put them in the horrible position they found themselves in...it was having spent years on a stagnant list at a weak carrier. With regard to SLI they put forth their argument, made their case and in the end pledged to honor the finding of an independent arbiter. As much as we may commiserate with their plight, they deserve no credit for going back on that promise.

R57 relay

No, there you are flat out wrong. That weak carrier is what is carrying most of the "new" US Airways. It did not liquidate, and Nicolau shifted the coming attrition to the west pilots. His assumptions have been proven wrong.

Nicolau got a lot of his award wrong. If he hadn't, we wouldn't be here. Period.

cactusmike

Before you go slamming those periods on your statement you need to put "in my opinion as an east pilot".

Since George Nicolau is one of the most respected arbitrators out there and there were two pilot neutrals that did not agree with you then we would have to suppose that Nicolau, indeed, got a lot of it right. Now those first 517 slots for maybe 120 to 140 widebody captains? Not so much. But hey, we already talked about the fairness thing. When you picked the arbitrator you can't go crying "do over" later.

One thing I would like to rebut you on is you assertion that the East is carrying the West. The turnaround in the east operation is remarkable. Please remember that it was west management that did that. Also, since the merger, the CASM went from 7.8 cents per seat mile at AWA to 15 cents per seat mile due to higher costs on the east side, shorter stage lengths and older aircraft. Those nice new airbus jets you fly? They were an America West order. Same thing for the A350. We had a MOU with airbus prior to the merger to be a launch customer. There was another order after the merger but that formalized the MOU and added to the existing narrow body order.

When you hear the frustration from us it is because you believe that you are the only ones who should benefit from the sacrifices we have made. You got shafted in CH 11, twice, we get that. That was why you were acquired by AWA. and no, you did not get the money to do the deal. if you had done that then there would have been no need to merge with haste with AWA. and that's part of why we have this goatf#%k, Parker was under a deadline to do the deal before you went CH 7 and SWA would pick up the PHL pieces like they aced us out of the ATA deal. AWA pilots have been shafted at every turn since the merger and we were the profitable company going into this.

Funny thing. We will probably be having this same conversation with AA pilots 5 years from now if this merger goes through.

Southerner

For what it's worth, airlines have learned from the AW/US Airways example, and now require that the CBA be completed before the seniority integration is done. That prevents one group from using the CBA vote as a referendum on the seniority integration.

I have no dog in the fight as an outsider, but it seems to me that binding arbitration should be...you know...binding. That's the risk of going to arbitration, and why it should be avoided. If it isn't really binding, then *** does it mean to go to arbitration?

Again, outsider here, so take it for what it is.

R57 relay

CM,

You are one of the west pilots I respect so I will try to respond in the same matter.

You are not correct on a few points. Brucia disagreed with Nicolau and the disagreement really was the crux of the issue-the placement of furloughed pilots. Nicolau cleaned up the seniority list and used the one from 2007, two years after the merger, because it "better reflected the merged airline." Yet, he held several hundred returned from furlough pilots to their May 2005 status of furloughed. But Brucia didn't have a vote and Nicolau didn't listen. If he had, I believe that we would be in a different place.

The over all CASM did go up because of the east route structure but the RASM went up more and the west CASM didn't greatly increase. Here are some quotes from 2006:

"On a standalone basis, America West reported a net profit of $68 million for the second quarter 2006 as compared to a net loss of $2 million for the same period last year. US Airways reported a net profit of $246 million on a standalone basis for the second quarter 2006 as compared to a net loss of $44 million for the same period last year."

"Revenue and Cost Comparisons
The revenue environment continued to gain momentum during the second quarter 2006 and showed considerable improvement over the same period in 2005. For the America West standalone network, total (mainline and express) revenue per available seat mile (RASM) increased 18.6 percent during the second quarter 2006 to 11.16 cents, driven primarily by a 16.4 percent improvement in mainline yields. For the US Airways standalone network, total RASM increased 28.8 percent to 15.23 cents driven by a 16.9 percent improvement in mainline yields and a 4.6 point improvement in mainline load factor as compared to the same period last year.
On a standalone basis, America West's mainline operating costs per available seat mile (CASM) increased 12.3 percent from 8.95 cents for the second quarter of 2005 to 10.05 cents for the second quarter 2006, largely due to a 25.3 percent increase in the price of fuel in the same period from $1.74 to $2.18 per gallon. US Airways' standalone mainline CASM for the second quarter 2006 increased 14.3 percent from 10.25 cents for the second quarter 2005 to 11.72 cents also largely due to higher fuel prices, which increased 28.2 percent versus the same period last year. In total, US Airways Group paid $183 million more for fuel in the second quarter 2006 than it would have paid had fuel prices remained at second quarter 2005 levels."

From Doug Parker, the most profitable station is CLT, DCA has the best margin, then PHL and PHX last. From the last crew news session he was clear about PHX and it's revenue generating ability.


US Airways had more aircraft on order than AWA. No matter, those orders were all redone after the merger. But, AWA had no widebodies on order. You didn't even serve Hawaii on your own at the time the merger was announced.


Absent this merger, do you really think Doug Parker would be looking at a chance of running AA? AWA got the entire US system for NOTHING, NADA, ZIP. They didn't even raise the money for the merger, Bruce Lakefield and the Luth Group did! The money that paid off the AWA ATSB loan and avoided the AWA coming cash crunch.



I have never, ever said that only east pilots should benefit from this merger. I've said the DOH, at least as USAPA currently sees it, is not fair to west pilots and I don't know how to make is so. I just think, and will go to my grave thinking, that George Nicolau got a lot of it wrong. One of the reason is not about me or the east, it's the senior west. They were left in the wind with the bizarre method of protecting widebody flying putting 517 east pilots on top and no fences for PHX.


I wish I had an answer for this, but I don't.


Take care.

R57 relay

ALPA also changed it merger policy....again.

MatthewAMEL

What he said.

Don't take your ball and go home if you don't like the way the game is going.

I felt genuine sympathy for USAir guys before the NIC award. Now it's the deepest kind of contempt.

R57 relay

Strictly on the not abiding by "binding arbitration?" Had we just used the separate ratification provisions of the T/A and stayed separate would you feel the same?

MatthewAMEL

I'll be the 1st to admit I don't know enough about the USAir/AMWest contract details to know. I can barely keep track of mine.

I rant and rave about the results of the SWAPA/ATN SLI, but in the end, I know the pilot group voted for it and I'm going to abide by it.

R57 relay

I admire your honesty Matthew. Unlike many, you admit that you don't know the details of our situation and are biased by your own situation. Many can't do that.

I have never voted on anything except the ALPA/USAPA election. I was on the losing end there. The US/AW transition agreement called for 3 things to happen before we were to be one.
1) Single operating certificate
2) Joint seniority integration
and the missing link:
3) A joint contract

Had we reached a joint contract before the others, we would be done. We didn't and we still don't have one. The Nicolau award prevented that. It prevented that because the US pilots didn't accept it and formed a new union that won't accept it, but we also could have just not voted yes for a new contract. EITHER way, no use of the Nicolau award.

The west had the same rights. Had Nicolau produced an award that was perceived as bad for the west as the east perceived, then they could have delayed it. As a matter of fact, a west friend of mine told me that is the reason the west didn't protest that T/A provision. They felt that they might well come out on the short end of the stick and then THEY would need a delay device.

The US/AWA mess is just that, a mess. But tell me something. What kind of inferior contract would you vote for that forever gave your seniority to your merger partner. You said your group voted for it. Mine didn't.