Jetblue and the PVC
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,099
Riddle it didn't fail to mention it. At the outset of this process management, which later became the PAR, made it clear the only thing you would receive this year is a pay raise. Ill see if I can find the emails.
In my opinion JetBlue is convinced it can sway 50.1% of the pilot group with a simple pay raise. Keep in mind, as the recent PAR email alluded, significant give backs in the form of code sharing are expected in addition to other work rule related items.
Insurance isn't to be discussed as they have already made those determinations for next year. The changes were part of a 3-4 year plan so the only number we anticipate is the percentage increase. Feel free to contact the comp and benefits people on that one.
Lastly you are industry standard in the remaining items.
In my opinion JetBlue is convinced it can sway 50.1% of the pilot group with a simple pay raise. Keep in mind, as the recent PAR email alluded, significant give backs in the form of code sharing are expected in addition to other work rule related items.
Insurance isn't to be discussed as they have already made those determinations for next year. The changes were part of a 3-4 year plan so the only number we anticipate is the percentage increase. Feel free to contact the comp and benefits people on that one.
Lastly you are industry standard in the remaining items.
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,099
From SVP Martin March 18:
That new landscape also changes and challenges our ability to compete successfully for growth. To assist in funding compensation increases and remain competitive as the industry changes, we either need to cut existing budgets in other areas across the business, implement Pilot productivity offsets or find new opportunities to create additional revenue. We prefer the latter. More revenue is good for all of us. It means more aircraft, more hiring, more upgrades and Quality of Life enhancements.
While there are many issues of interest to discuss, we simply cannot cover every topic in the next few months. We must prioritize and determine what to address first, second, third and so on - and we believe the compensation package is number one on everyone’s list right now.
In short you will receive a pay raise offset by code sharing on domestic routes and fly more days.
That new landscape also changes and challenges our ability to compete successfully for growth. To assist in funding compensation increases and remain competitive as the industry changes, we either need to cut existing budgets in other areas across the business, implement Pilot productivity offsets or find new opportunities to create additional revenue. We prefer the latter. More revenue is good for all of us. It means more aircraft, more hiring, more upgrades and Quality of Life enhancements.
While there are many issues of interest to discuss, we simply cannot cover every topic in the next few months. We must prioritize and determine what to address first, second, third and so on - and we believe the compensation package is number one on everyone’s list right now.
In short you will receive a pay raise offset by code sharing on domestic routes and fly more days.
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,551
Wait a minute. They want to talk about everything else. They used the phrase "compensation bucket" not me.
All of that is compensation.
They are talking about a comprehensive review! Comprehensive by its very definition means what??
They are trying to tie codeshare to this pay raise. How should we not tie ALL compensation to it too.
That email from Jeff is old news when they were trying to push forward without a protocol agreement.
All of that is compensation.
They are talking about a comprehensive review! Comprehensive by its very definition means what??
They are trying to tie codeshare to this pay raise. How should we not tie ALL compensation to it too.
That email from Jeff is old news when they were trying to push forward without a protocol agreement.
#104
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
From SVP Martin March 18:
That new landscape also changes and challenges our ability to compete successfully for growth. To assist in funding compensation increases and remain competitive as the industry changes, we either need to cut existing budgets in other areas across the business, implement Pilot productivity offsets or find new opportunities to create additional revenue. We prefer the latter. More revenue is good for all of us. It means more aircraft, more hiring, more upgrades and Quality of Life enhancements.
While there are many issues of interest to discuss, we simply cannot cover every topic in the next few months. We must prioritize and determine what to address first, second, third and so on - and we believe the compensation package is number one on everyone’s list right now.
In short you will receive a pay raise offset by code sharing on domestic routes and fly more days.
That new landscape also changes and challenges our ability to compete successfully for growth. To assist in funding compensation increases and remain competitive as the industry changes, we either need to cut existing budgets in other areas across the business, implement Pilot productivity offsets or find new opportunities to create additional revenue. We prefer the latter. More revenue is good for all of us. It means more aircraft, more hiring, more upgrades and Quality of Life enhancements.
While there are many issues of interest to discuss, we simply cannot cover every topic in the next few months. We must prioritize and determine what to address first, second, third and so on - and we believe the compensation package is number one on everyone’s list right now.
In short you will receive a pay raise offset by code sharing on domestic routes and fly more days.
We would certainly be the lower cost, more productive airline and pilot group in any 2-way codeshare (AA).
#105
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
Wait a minute. They want to talk about everything else. They used the phrase "compensation bucket" not me.
All of that is compensation.
They are talking about a comprehensive review! Comprehensive by its very definition means what??
They are trying to tie codeshare to this pay raise. How should we not tie ALL compensation to it too.
That email from Jeff is old news when they were trying to push forward without a protocol agreement.
All of that is compensation.
They are talking about a comprehensive review! Comprehensive by its very definition means what??
They are trying to tie codeshare to this pay raise. How should we not tie ALL compensation to it too.
That email from Jeff is old news when they were trying to push forward without a protocol agreement.
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,099
The protocol agreement is to hold the their feet to the fire.
While the code share may bring more revenue it certainly doesn't creat more flying for JetBlue pilots. It simply takes a route that a 320/190 can do, per the PPA, and allow another carrier to do that flying. This isn't the watershed idea managements emails allude to.
Remember Jetblues network is "open architecture" which simply means outsourcing. Allow someone else to do a job you can do for less money, headache, training... Pick a reason.
While the code share may bring more revenue it certainly doesn't creat more flying for JetBlue pilots. It simply takes a route that a 320/190 can do, per the PPA, and allow another carrier to do that flying. This isn't the watershed idea managements emails allude to.
Remember Jetblues network is "open architecture" which simply means outsourcing. Allow someone else to do a job you can do for less money, headache, training... Pick a reason.
#107
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
The protocol agreement is to hold the their feet to the fire.
While the code share may bring more revenue it certainly doesn't creat more flying for JetBlue pilots. It simply takes a route that a 320/190 can do, per the PPA, and allow another carrier to do that flying. This isn't the watershed idea managements emails allude to.
Remember Jetblues network is "open architecture" which simply means outsourcing. Allow someone else to do a job you can do for less money, headache, training... Pick a reason.
While the code share may bring more revenue it certainly doesn't creat more flying for JetBlue pilots. It simply takes a route that a 320/190 can do, per the PPA, and allow another carrier to do that flying. This isn't the watershed idea managements emails allude to.
Remember Jetblues network is "open architecture" which simply means outsourcing. Allow someone else to do a job you can do for less money, headache, training... Pick a reason.
Look, I am not saying I want substantial codesharing, and no say in the codesharing. But I am not as convinced that WE will be the big losers in an AA codeshare. I also think it is niave and misleading to suggest that if we don't allow any codesharing, management will be forced to order a whole bunch of new airplanes to fly those routes that we wouldn't let them codeshare on.....
Also, if a big mega-carrier (biggest in the world) wants to code-share with us, the same one we have been taking their flying from for years, and we say no-thanks, they may have a pretty aggressive anti-cooperative and anti-jetBlue response waiting for us.... Maybe it isn't smart to poke the BIG BEAR in the eye at this stage of our existince over some routes that we might otherwise overlap on or be unprofitable for us both to serve at the same time....
Again, us forcing management to not codeshare will NOT force them to order a bunch more airplanes and grow faster than they want....
Yes, I am pro-union.
#108
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
I am no airline CEO. I am not even an internet airline CEO like some guys on here pretend to be. I do not get NDA PVC information regarding routes, plans, projections. My views on codesharing are not set in stone. I do NOT want significant, unlimited codesharing without pilot consent...
So make a thoughtful response to my point by point concerns and will listen. Scare-mongering does NOT work on me.
So make a thoughtful response to my point by point concerns and will listen. Scare-mongering does NOT work on me.
#109
Its a TWO WAY codeshare. TWO WAY. So you are saying that AA and JB management, through their collaboration and planning, would have the MORE expensive and LESS productive group do the lion's share of the new flying?
Look, I am not saying I want substantial codesharing, and no say in the codesharing. But I am not as convinced that WE will be the big losers in an AA codeshare. I also think it is niave and misleading to suggest that if we don't allow any codesharing, management will be forced to order a whole bunch of new airplanes to fly those routes that we wouldn't let them codeshare on.....
Also, if a big mega-carrier (biggest in the world) wants to code-share with us, the same one we have been taking their flying from for years, and we say no-thanks, they may have a pretty aggressive anti-cooperative and anti-jetBlue response waiting for us.... Maybe it isn't smart to poke the BIG BEAR in the eye at this stage of our existince over some routes that we might otherwise overlap on or be unprofitable for us both to serve at the same time....
Again, us forcing management to not codeshare will NOT force them to order a bunch more airplanes and grow faster than they want....
Yes, I am pro-union.
Look, I am not saying I want substantial codesharing, and no say in the codesharing. But I am not as convinced that WE will be the big losers in an AA codeshare. I also think it is niave and misleading to suggest that if we don't allow any codesharing, management will be forced to order a whole bunch of new airplanes to fly those routes that we wouldn't let them codeshare on.....
Also, if a big mega-carrier (biggest in the world) wants to code-share with us, the same one we have been taking their flying from for years, and we say no-thanks, they may have a pretty aggressive anti-cooperative and anti-jetBlue response waiting for us.... Maybe it isn't smart to poke the BIG BEAR in the eye at this stage of our existince over some routes that we might otherwise overlap on or be unprofitable for us both to serve at the same time....
Again, us forcing management to not codeshare will NOT force them to order a bunch more airplanes and grow faster than they want....
Yes, I am pro-union.
Even if the flying isn't threatened, you will hear from leadership the threat of losing revenue if you are paid too much. Have fun with that!
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,551
Yes the economics on the American deal favor us right now. What about when Republic opens up an independent brand that operates E190's for way less. Oh wait they already do. Two way code share goes both ways.
Better to keep that genie in the bottle if able. It certainly hasnt hurt the southwest guys.
Better to keep that genie in the bottle if able. It certainly hasnt hurt the southwest guys.