Onfinal

Perhaps reality lies somewhere in the middle, because this isn't obvious and their is no denial going on here. I grew up in NYC, Brooklyn to be specific and your experience is completely different than mine. But that is so much the center of egocentric/ethnocentric thought to believe that their experience is obvious and hence is the only experience with validity.

Onfinal

vagabond

OnFinal, I have to say you probably will make as good a lawyer as Tony. If you both take a class on legal research, evidence, trial advocacy and appellate advocacy, it would be a challenge and a pleasure to have the two of you argue your respective sides before me.

I wait with bated breath to see how this discussion unfolds.

Onfinal

Vagabond, Well I'm just a lowly pilot, not fancy lawyer or anything! And this pilot needs to get ready for a 4-day trip. So there won't be much more discussion from my end.

But thanks!

Onfinal

GotheriK

Wrong, I said I did know a cuban kid who wanted to fly.

I also have met a few Cuban pilots.

CE750

nevertheless... every 3rd male in MIA metro area is a Cuban... I'd think there was a 1/2 dozen or more at a typical HS..

I agree that racial AA is broken however, and that we should re-visit it.

For example, a Hawaiian person who arguably would have no problem being hired in terms of discrimination gets to check off a "minority box" while a dark skinned arab american (forget Muslim, could be a Christian), is to be listed as "White Caucasian" ..

And another favorite of mine is the 1/8 American Indian guy who's got blonde hair and blue eyes, but his great, great grandfather raped an Indian woman during the wars out west and now he's a "minority".

I tell you, the best solution is financial assistance in the early/formative years to get minorities exposed to the career field (those who are so inclined) is the best solution, and the hiring then to be done strictly on merit (with tie breakers being at the discretion of the HR dept).

that's where I stand.

TonyC

Well, I'm just crushed. I don't know if I can go on another day.



You know, son, you're really starting to annoy me with this recurring accusation.

I thought I already addressed this:
In this, you accused me of posting Post #55 at 9:02 PM before you could hit the Submit button on your Post #53 at 8:49 PM. It's impossible to quote your post before you Submit it, but that didn't keep you from making the ridiculous claim.

What seems to baffle you is that I DO read your posts, and it doesn't take that long to find weaknesses in your arguments. Letting them set for a while doesn't make them more correct. It took me less than 13 minutes to read your 8 sentences, and answer the most outrageous. WOW. Perhaps I should teach speed reading.

The problem is not my reading, it's what you're writing.




Well I'm so sorry if you find the laws boring, but it's very clear that you don't understand them. For you to lump EEOC law with AA, MBE, WBE, and DBE betrays your ignorance of them.

But you don't want to hear that. You want to think that there is a fundamental difference between the law and "programs." OK, fine. Let's try this little exercise. Name one program started under Equal Employment Opportunity Law that your theoretical neo-con (a term which you have subsequently admitted you don't understand) wants to eliminate. Name one program that is in place to ensure equal opportunity for all, regardless of race, religion, creed, gender, or disability that your "neo-con" wants to eliminate.



And when you find it, write slowly so I can read it, please.





When you present something new, something that I haven't heard before, something that hasn't been preached before, I'll take time to consider it. So far, you've just regurgitated the same ole lines. I don't need opportunity for further reflection. And I don't think the security of our Republic is in danger because I can give you a speedy response.



I'm not sluggin', yet. But I do find it odd that the one who called me "dude" is preaching about respect.



Oh, I am so glad that you've exlpained the Three Branches of Government for me. I was a little bit fuzzy on that concept. Tell me, do those three branches kinda balance out the power of each other, so one isn't more powerful than the other? I seem to recall reading about that stuff somewhere. I'm not a very good reader, though, so I might have gotten a little confused.



Yeah, you really did, not only in words, but in meaning.

"equality as a fact and equality as a result"

He did not advocate stacking the deck in favor of minorities, as Affirmative Action does.




.

CE750

What most people don't know or seem to understand is that most AA isn't born of any law, EEOC or Civil Rights laws, in this TonyC is correct..

Most of these are thru law suits, president set in (generally liberal) courts, and in many cases, (yes believe it or not), corporations WANT to have AA as part of their corporate culture. (hate to sound like a broken record) But especially with regards to women, as they're a huge part of the labor pool to tap into. If you're able to bring 50% of the population that is theoretically sitting on the sidelines into a labor pool that otherwise didn't participate in great numbers, then you've just cause the cost of labor to dramatically drop. Supply = Demand, remember that?

So not only doesn't it make hiring cheap for them in the long run, as they are able then flood the market with more "qualified" labor, but it also fits into their social agenda. Yes, corporations are not these "Conservative" entities people think.. they're as Godless and Liberal as the next Chinese Commie.

Doesn't require a degree in economics to see this at work.. I mean, how much are pilots paid now vs 30 years ago? Compare this with the FACT that demand for air travel is at an all time high.. so in effect, the cost of labor should have gone up, not down, but it did.... why? I'll tell you why.. add 10-15% more to the force than you need, and you've just dropped the price of labor in half.. Econ 101.

atpwannabe

Yeah, baby. Let the truth be told about the Pilgrams and Mayflower b/c that's where it all started.

atp