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-   -   Any Truth to this old TWA fable? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/75153-any-truth-old-twa-fable.html)

galaxy flyer 05-30-2013 08:59 AM

Question being, after a stern conversion at M2.0 in a Lightning, did he land on fumes or use the chute to get back to Earth. They weren't noted for endurance, even subsonic.

GF

Outsider 05-30-2013 11:46 AM

So a bit of a walk down memory lane here. That's great; us old farts love that stuff.
Here's some of that, a bit more mundane than shooting down satellites but a little history nonetheless.
In the early 50's I was an Air Force brat (Father was AAF during the war) stationed at Langley AFB (Field) and used to lay out off the approach end of the runway with the aircraft landing overhead, I think they were F-80’s and F-86’s. We were however somewhat influenced by the fact that we used to run around every week in the cloud of fumes coming out of the DDT jeep not quite understanding why it was so much fun.
In 1953 my father was transferred to England and a few months later “the dependents” were to follow. So in the early summer of 53 it was time and my Mother and the kids were to fly over. We flew from McGuire AFB NJ to Blackbush England in what I’m pretty sure was a C-54 (MATS). They entire flight took 24 hrs. 17 in the air with stops at Gander and Shannon for breakfast and dinner. Arriving in Blackbush in a severe storm. The aircraft was basically full of women and kids with all the guys waiting on the ground. Later my Dad said they were scared to death, we were brought in on a GCA with the approach piped down to all the guys waiting in the terminal.
We were to stay in London until we found a house. London was a madhouse, I heard at some point they were getting a new Queen, I thought it happened all the time.
Returned to the States in 58 going to some new base called Vandenberg and spent the next 3 yrs watching missiles blow up (one piece as big as a car came right through the NCO Club roof), we used to sneak out near the Pads on our motor scooters (which we could drive at 14, talk about fun). We did get caught a couple of times but hangin out with the Base Commanders and Provost Marshals sons helped a bit.
Even saw some Snarks and Bomarc’s. Well enough; just some old stuff.

Columbia 05-30-2013 11:56 AM


Originally Posted by mike734 (Post 1417595)
Didn't American have an up or out policy 20 years ago? You could bypass upgrade a certain number of times but then you had to upgrade or leave. Once you upgraded you could downgrade again without consequence. Or so I'm told that's the way it went.

Used to be that way at SWA, fwiw.

fireman0174 05-30-2013 12:33 PM


Originally Posted by Outsider (Post 1418534)
So a bit of a walk down memory lane here. That's great; us old farts love that stuff.

This is true.

I was across the channel from you living in Paris from 1952-1956. Dad worked for the CAA (FAA).

I remember seeing Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis live on the US side of Orly Airport. (1955 or 1956?)

All good times. :)

Always thought the Snark was one cool looking bird.

FoxHunter 05-30-2013 01:00 PM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1417679)
United was briefly hiring Private Pilots and training them, 1966 or 67, I think.

No, United would hire a person that had zero time if he had a 4 year degree, and was not subject to the draft. I had a student at the FBO I worked at that had a class date with United. He had some sort of medical problem, that excluded him from military service. He was required to get his FAA Commercial with his own money. TWA had a similar program but required a FAA Private.

nwaf16dude 05-30-2013 01:14 PM


Originally Posted by USMCFLYR (Post 1418371)
Anything could get into a firing solution, especially carrying an AIM-54 - - JUST GET OUT IN FRONT POINTING AT IT! :D

Of course intercept doesn't nescessarily mean join up in formation - that is just one type of intercept.

Yes - BB seemed to be talking about testing F-14s coming off the production line - but *intercepting* anything didn't require launching from the mainland for the mighty Turkey.

Not sure what you meant about supersonic intercepts being very difficult to run to a firing solution. In what way?

If you're trying to visually ID and kill the guy with papas and guns, then yes it is a tough problem. BVR weapons free with current weapons, not so hard.

Papas, for the uninitiated =early generation heat-seeking missile, had to be shot from almost directly behind, very short range

FoxHunter 05-30-2013 01:27 PM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1417678)
Red Eye,

Your report is correct.

Both Seaboard and Tigers hired Professional Flight Engineers who not only worked the panel, but who kept the engines turning by whatever means necessary when they were the only airlines flying within 2,000 miles of places like Manaus, the Sub- Sahara and China just after WW2.

My father still places his feet on the floor in my Bonanza and tells me more than my 6CYL EGT/CHT/Fuel Computer can about the engine's health. Guess the skills that help you find which of 144 spark plugs is misfiring never completely go away.

Actually all the airlines hired PFEs. When the jets first came ALPA took the position that all jet aircraft should be flown by three pilots. During the early days of the B707 and DC8 the normal crew was Captain, First Officer, third pilot, and the Flight Engineer. There was a turf battle between ALPA and FEIA. The situation of the three pilots and the PFE could not last. American Airlines left ALPA over the issue. FEIA was on strike at EAL and the ALPA pilots broke the strike. The PFEs that crossed the picket line were put on the pilot seniority list. The guys that stayed on strike were spread to the winds, never to return to EAL. The lock out still existed the day they shut the doors.

FoxHunter 05-30-2013 02:25 PM


Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r (Post 1417704)
That is because many pilots were busy dropping Bombs or spraying Agent orange in SEA during that time. :cool:

Plus the fact the requirements of the day were White Male, age 32 or under, 20/20 vision without glasses, Military obligation complete or not eligible for Selective Service(Draft Army/USMC).

I received a rejection from NWA because I was too short. I'm 5'9" and the requirement was 5'10".

galaxy flyer 05-30-2013 08:06 PM

FoxHunter

Indeed, a case of union busting by ALPA. I flew with a lot of those PFEs, who got their pilot's licenses and had a special code on their DOH. Many were good pilots, too. One could not make a bad landing on 727.

GF

727C47 05-31-2013 01:48 AM


Originally Posted by galaxy flyer (Post 1418846)
FoxHunter

Indeed, a case of union busting by ALPA. I flew with a lot of those PFEs, who got their pilot's licenses and had a special code on their DOH. Many were good pilots, too. One could not make a bad landing on 727.

GF

thats saying something, the old 3 holer even bit 10,000 hour vets on occasion .


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