Jetblue movement...
09-04-2013 | 04:23 AM
#491
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,295
Likes: 4
From: CA
FWIW the new uniform looks pretty nice. Light blue shirt, nice suit, almost appears to have grey fibers in it.
09-04-2013 | 04:28 AM
#492
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,007
Likes: 0
Agreed. But, the longer we wait, the further off for a CBA.
Uniforms??? Our last CP pleaded with the company for white shirts. They said the blue shirts were part of our "brand"....whatever. I'm just sick and tired of pax coming up to me asking to change their seats. New shirt out next year. Will be lighter blue like Alaska's old shirts...more like Air Force blue. Again, don't care about the little stuff. Just need a union ASAP and a CBA to quickly follow.
GP
Uniforms??? Our last CP pleaded with the company for white shirts. They said the blue shirts were part of our "brand"....whatever. I'm just sick and tired of pax coming up to me asking to change their seats. New shirt out next year. Will be lighter blue like Alaska's old shirts...more like Air Force blue. Again, don't care about the little stuff. Just need a union ASAP and a CBA to quickly follow.
GP
This is a major issue with JB pilots. Management is trying to redefine the airline pilot profession with you guys. No longer is it legacy professional airline pilots, but the new pilot labor. Same deal at VA. The uniform is part of it. Everytime you put on that blue shirt its a win for management and a degradation for the profession.
If you don't think so, or never realized it, that means management has done a great job in getting you to believe one thing while the other is true.....
JB pilots... get your act together!!
09-04-2013 | 04:30 AM
#493
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 975
Likes: 0
From: Babysitter
I agree CBA is more important, but your uniforms are part of the brand... and that brand means you are the same as all employees. That is why your ramper/gate agent benefits suck.
This is a major issue with JB pilots. Management is trying to redefine the airline pilot profession with you guys. No longer is it legacy professional airline pilots, but the new pilot labor. Same deal at VA. The uniform is part of it. Everytime you put on that blue shirt its a win for management and a degradation for the profession.
If you don't think so, or never realized it, that means management has done a great job in getting you to believe one thing while the other is true.....
JB pilots... get your act together!!
This is a major issue with JB pilots. Management is trying to redefine the airline pilot profession with you guys. No longer is it legacy professional airline pilots, but the new pilot labor. Same deal at VA. The uniform is part of it. Everytime you put on that blue shirt its a win for management and a degradation for the profession.
If you don't think so, or never realized it, that means management has done a great job in getting you to believe one thing while the other is true.....
JB pilots... get your act together!!
I'm just curious, does it give you some perverse excitement degrading other companies or do you really just have no life? I'm fairly certain most JB pilots understand the difficulties that their company has, but it's their company and they choose to be there based on their own decisions. So let's get away from degrading them and back to the topic at hand.
If you actually are with one of the 3 big guys, coming here to degrade them is the equivalent to a 10 year old rich kid coming to school bragging about his trip to Hawaii or Disneyland over the summer when you're vacation was a drive to the coast staying in a Super 8 for 3 days because you're family can't afford anything else.
Last edited by WARich; 09-04-2013 at 04:48 AM.
09-04-2013 | 04:46 AM
#494
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,007
Likes: 0
I'm just curious, does it give you some perverse excitement degrading other companies or do you really just have no life? I'm fairly certain most JB pilots understand the difficulties that their company has, but it's their company and they choose to be there based on their own decisions. So let's get away from degrading them and back to the topic at hand. If you actually are with one of the 3 big guys coming here to degrade them is the equivalent to a 10 year old rich kid coming to school bragging about his trip to Hawaii or Disney land over the summer when you're vacation was a drive to the coast staying in a Super 8 for 3 days because you're family can't afford anything else.
This is nothing new. Pilot solidarity was figured out in the 1920s. Almost 100 years ago. Yet here you are trying to trick-f the system, for your benefit at our detriment.
What you do effects all of us. What we do effects you. We are all in this together!
We've tried to bring you in. You've rejected the profession twice. You want the benefits without the responsibility. It's gotten so old, yet there are some pilots at JB that do get it. Listen to them and get off that nasty disgusting DR management tit.
Quit trying to make it about me, so you don't have the deal with the real issues. I don't care if you guys like me or not. This is about the profession.
09-04-2013 | 07:56 AM
#495
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 302
Likes: 0
From: FO
Let me be brutally clear to you.
This is nothing new. Pilot solidarity was figured out in the 1920s. Almost 100 years ago. Yet here you are trying to trick-f the system, for your benefit at our detriment.
What you do effects all of us. What we do effects you. We are all in this together!
We've tried to bring you in. You've rejected the profession twice. You want the benefits without the responsibility. It's gotten so old, yet there are some pilots at JB that do get it. Listen to them and get off that nasty disgusting DR management tit.
Quit trying to make it about me, so you don't have the deal with the real issues. I don't care if you guys like me or not. This is about the profession.
This is nothing new. Pilot solidarity was figured out in the 1920s. Almost 100 years ago. Yet here you are trying to trick-f the system, for your benefit at our detriment.
What you do effects all of us. What we do effects you. We are all in this together!
We've tried to bring you in. You've rejected the profession twice. You want the benefits without the responsibility. It's gotten so old, yet there are some pilots at JB that do get it. Listen to them and get off that nasty disgusting DR management tit.
Quit trying to make it about me, so you don't have the deal with the real issues. I don't care if you guys like me or not. This is about the profession.
09-04-2013 | 08:34 AM
#496
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,007
Likes: 0
Whether you unionize will be up to ALPA, unless you go in house. Especially since you turn ALPA down already. As seen by the attitudes of JB pilots what you are really looking for is a better benefactor than managment. You have no clue what it means to be a professional, easily influenced by TWA and USAIR guys....
I've lost faith in you guys... you've rejected unions twice. What is frustrating is, you guys need to be coddled and woo'ed into voting for a union... like going on date night after you said no twice. Screw that... if you can't look at the benefits of self governance instead of being managements wage slave then you deserve to get what you get....
09-04-2013 | 09:35 AM
#497
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
From: E-190/175/170
Not really.... There are huge we are in this together advantages to joining ALPA, and downsides as well... Fact is, I pay ALPA dues and that gives me a voice with my union. I told them months ago to quit wasting my dues money on you indecisive freeloaders.
Whether you unionize will be up to ALPA, unless you go in house. Especially since you turn ALPA down already. As seen by the attitudes of JB pilots what you are really looking for is a better benefactor than managment. You have no clue what it means to be a professional, easily influenced by TWA and USAIR guys....
I've lost faith in you guys... you've rejected unions twice. What is frustrating is, you guys need to be coddled and woo'ed into voting for a union... like going on date night after you said no twice. Screw that... if you can't look at the benefits of self governance instead of being managements wage slave then you deserve to get what you get....
Whether you unionize will be up to ALPA, unless you go in house. Especially since you turn ALPA down already. As seen by the attitudes of JB pilots what you are really looking for is a better benefactor than managment. You have no clue what it means to be a professional, easily influenced by TWA and USAIR guys....
I've lost faith in you guys... you've rejected unions twice. What is frustrating is, you guys need to be coddled and woo'ed into voting for a union... like going on date night after you said no twice. Screw that... if you can't look at the benefits of self governance instead of being managements wage slave then you deserve to get what you get....
What I find interesting, is that we (as a profession) seem to think that unionization is the 'fix' to our profession. But the real problem (in my opinion) is that as long as the Rail Way Labor Act exists, no union will ever be able to accomplish what this profession needs. EVER. Why there hasn't been an industry wide march of every pilot down (pick a street) in Washington D.C. Demanding the repeal of this slave labor antiquated piece of legislation amazes me.
Am I the only one that see's this?
The RLA is the single biggest shackle we have around our collective necks and neither ALPA, nor the Teamsters, nor any other union that represents an airline pilot group has the ability to truly restore our profession until the RLA goes away!
Don't get me wrong.., Im not against a union being here, to be honest, in the current RLA/NMB landscape, I don't see (again in my previous union experience). Where the union made one iota of difference in our quality of life, or pay.., not ONE. But if this pilot group collectively feels that this is the ONLY way to go foward I will support it and vote yes.
This doesn't change my opinion that as long as the RLA and the office that enforces the RLA exists (NMB) this profession is broken and a union is incapable of giving us what we truly need.., the ability to deny our labor without having to ask the Feds (NMB) for permission. Especially when airline managements know how to manipulate the negotiation process to their benefit. When, you (as a group) determine, that management is no longer acting in good faith, vote to strike with a 98percent yes vote, and STILL, cannot because the NMB has been given authority over wether I go to work or not! Needing permission to be released to self help...,who is the f'n rocket scientist that came up with that master plan?
Only when we have the inherent ability that ANY OTHER common unionized laborer has to determine FOR OUR SELVES when and under what conditions, we will continue to perform or deny our services, will I consider being a member of a union to be "Self Governance." Right now, with RLA, we're not, SIMPLE AS THAT.
Bottom line for me..., I've yet to see a truly effective (fully functional) airline union. Not saying I'm a no voter, but the whole premise of us having to be "wooed" to vote a union in is like someone trying to convince me that buying this corvette means I really GET a corvette and not something that actually performs little better than a YUGO.
Just the opinion of this 49 yr old guy sitting in my living room perusing this board. I've got a military career behind me, and previous unionized airline employment. I have every intention of supporting my pilot group where voting for a union is concerned! I'm just not convinced that its really gonna change anything. Best of luck to us all!
Last edited by Beechlover; 09-04-2013 at 10:11 AM.
09-04-2013 | 10:36 AM
#498
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 302
Likes: 0
From: FO
"Self Governance?" I realize we all bring our individual experiences to this profession. Without going into boring details, I would NOT characterize my experience with my previous unionized airline as "self governance."
What I find interesting, is that we (as a profession) seem to think that unionization is the 'fix' to our profession. But the real problem (in my opinion) is that as long as the Rail Way Labor Act exists, no union will ever be able to accomplish what this profession needs. EVER. Why there hasn't been an industry wide march of every pilot down (pick a street) in Washington D.C. Demanding the repeal of this slave labor antiquated piece of legislation amazes me.
Am I the only one that see's this?
The RLA is the single biggest shackle we have around our collective necks and neither ALPA, nor the Teamsters, nor any other union that represents an airline pilot group has the ability to truly restore our profession until the RLA goes away!
Don't get me wrong.., Im not against a union being here, to be honest, in the current RLA/NMB landscape, I don't see (again in my previous union experience). Where the union made one iota of difference in our quality of life, or pay.., not ONE. But if this pilot group collectively feels that this is the ONLY way to go foward I will support it and vote yes.
This doesn't change my opinion that as long as the RLA and the office that enforces the RLA exists (NMB) this profession is broken and a union is incapable of giving us what we truly need.., the ability to deny our labor without having to ask the Feds (NMB) for permission. Especially when airline managements know how to manipulate the negotiation process to their benefit. When, you (as a group) determine, that management is no longer acting in good faith, vote to strike with a 98percent yes vote, and STILL, cannot because the NMB has been given authority over wether I go to work or not! Needing permission to be released to self help...,who is the f'n rocket scientist that came up with that master plan?
Only when we have the inherent ability that ANY OTHER common unionized laborer has to determine FOR OUR SELVES when and under what conditions, we will continue to perform or deny our services, will I consider being a member of a union to be "Self Governance." Right now, with RLA, we're not, SIMPLE AS THAT.
Bottom line for me..., I've yet to see a truly effective (fully functional) airline union. Not saying I'm a no voter, but the whole premise of us having to be "wooed" to vote a union in is like someone trying to convince me that buying this corvette means I really GET a corvette and not something that actually performs little better than a YUGO.
Just the opinion of this 49 yr old guy sitting in my living room perusing this board. I've got a military career behind me, and previous unionized airline employment. I have every intention of supporting my pilot group where voting for a union is concerned! I'm just not convinced that its really gonna change anything. Best of luck to us all!
What I find interesting, is that we (as a profession) seem to think that unionization is the 'fix' to our profession. But the real problem (in my opinion) is that as long as the Rail Way Labor Act exists, no union will ever be able to accomplish what this profession needs. EVER. Why there hasn't been an industry wide march of every pilot down (pick a street) in Washington D.C. Demanding the repeal of this slave labor antiquated piece of legislation amazes me.
Am I the only one that see's this?
The RLA is the single biggest shackle we have around our collective necks and neither ALPA, nor the Teamsters, nor any other union that represents an airline pilot group has the ability to truly restore our profession until the RLA goes away!
Don't get me wrong.., Im not against a union being here, to be honest, in the current RLA/NMB landscape, I don't see (again in my previous union experience). Where the union made one iota of difference in our quality of life, or pay.., not ONE. But if this pilot group collectively feels that this is the ONLY way to go foward I will support it and vote yes.
This doesn't change my opinion that as long as the RLA and the office that enforces the RLA exists (NMB) this profession is broken and a union is incapable of giving us what we truly need.., the ability to deny our labor without having to ask the Feds (NMB) for permission. Especially when airline managements know how to manipulate the negotiation process to their benefit. When, you (as a group) determine, that management is no longer acting in good faith, vote to strike with a 98percent yes vote, and STILL, cannot because the NMB has been given authority over wether I go to work or not! Needing permission to be released to self help...,who is the f'n rocket scientist that came up with that master plan?
Only when we have the inherent ability that ANY OTHER common unionized laborer has to determine FOR OUR SELVES when and under what conditions, we will continue to perform or deny our services, will I consider being a member of a union to be "Self Governance." Right now, with RLA, we're not, SIMPLE AS THAT.
Bottom line for me..., I've yet to see a truly effective (fully functional) airline union. Not saying I'm a no voter, but the whole premise of us having to be "wooed" to vote a union in is like someone trying to convince me that buying this corvette means I really GET a corvette and not something that actually performs little better than a YUGO.
Just the opinion of this 49 yr old guy sitting in my living room perusing this board. I've got a military career behind me, and previous unionized airline employment. I have every intention of supporting my pilot group where voting for a union is concerned! I'm just not convinced that its really gonna change anything. Best of luck to us all!
Good Post!
09-04-2013 | 01:11 PM
#499
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 0
You couldn't be more wrong. There are business characteristics that play a very big part in this industry. One such characteristic is each player is heavily influenced by the other! This affects our careers too. Unfortunately, JB Pilots are lowering the bar for the profession.
JJ
09-04-2013 | 03:52 PM
#500
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 975
Likes: 0
From: Babysitter
Let me be brutally clear to you.
This is nothing new. Pilot solidarity was figured out in the 1920s. Almost 100 years ago. Yet here you are trying to trick-f the system, for your benefit at our detriment.
What you do effects all of us. What we do effects you. We are all in this together!
We've tried to bring you in. You've rejected the profession twice. You want the benefits without the responsibility. It's gotten so old, yet there are some pilots at JB that do get it. Listen to them and get off that nasty disgusting DR management tit.
Quit trying to make it about me, so you don't have the deal with the real issues. I don't care if you guys like me or not. This is about the profession.
This is nothing new. Pilot solidarity was figured out in the 1920s. Almost 100 years ago. Yet here you are trying to trick-f the system, for your benefit at our detriment.
What you do effects all of us. What we do effects you. We are all in this together!
We've tried to bring you in. You've rejected the profession twice. You want the benefits without the responsibility. It's gotten so old, yet there are some pilots at JB that do get it. Listen to them and get off that nasty disgusting DR management tit.
Quit trying to make it about me, so you don't have the deal with the real issues. I don't care if you guys like me or not. This is about the profession.
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