Recall of DAL MEC Officers
10-15-2013, 01:34 PM
#221
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by slowplay
I recall you and others saying a community organizer wasn't experienced enough to be a Senator and a Freshman Senator didn't have enough experience to be President. Conflicted?
10-15-2013, 01:42 PM
#222
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by Sink r8
It's only a nice post if it highlights a consensus between all participants around the idea of good governance. If this is a political game designed to bring back any relics from the past in the Chairman's position, it's an abject failure.
I'm trying to develop a position on this, because I want my reps to take this one very, very seriously. We're on the threshold of some very, very poor performance by our union OR a very nice cleanup, centered ONLY around the concept of good governance.
Whatever King didn't do to cripple himself, others have done for him. The purpose cannot be a coup. In other words, I think Kingmight be done, but now the MEC will have a responsibility to really get the next step right. O'Malley walking back out of this meeting Chairman, is just as bad as Roberts walking in to fight for his job.
This is part of my first draft letter to my reps, no time to format or proof-read:
I don’t really care who is in, and who isn’t, but I’m very concerned that our house divided is going to mean less contract to all of our houses in C2015. So I don’t find it very important how you got to call a recall meeting, but now that we’re here, these must always be the priorities:
1) Pulling together without attention to political issues is the ideal.
2) Resolving your political differences in private is best.
3) Going through a recall is not good, but it’s not fatal.
4) Coming out of a recall without a person with a clear mandate, and sending that poor bastard up against Anderson is not just fatal, but criminal.
There are two constituencies that benefit from this: the Company, and the DPA. When either benefits, we lose. I’m just a guy, floating around and asking questions, so I don’t know if I understand the group as well as you do. You probably know better. The people I fly with are anxious about their ability to drive the union. Every rep I’ve ever heard discuss the issue publicly, has proven that the union is a bottom-up organization by pointing out that a recall is always an option for the person voting. I think you’re going to be watched very, very closely here. You’re going to be making a statement about your values, and your willingness to stand firmly in control of the MEC. There are pro-DPA guys making the case that this didn’t happen for C2012. I really don’t know if they’re right, but I think I detect in the pro-DPA guys a weariness for what they think is a top-down union run amuck. Please don’t prove them right.
Whatever you do Thursday, please do NOT come back with an administration that is crippled by marginal support. I don’t have a particular preference for a particular person, or contempt for Kingsley. I think he could have stepped up better, and the “scourge” letter, when followed by no other message, was a big misstep. Whoever you pick, pick well, and come out with unequivocal support. Even if it takes a couple of days, or longer, please produce something coherent. Let everyone breathe a sign of relief when they see what you’ve accomplished.
I'm trying to develop a position on this, because I want my reps to take this one very, very seriously. We're on the threshold of some very, very poor performance by our union OR a very nice cleanup, centered ONLY around the concept of good governance.
Whatever King didn't do to cripple himself, others have done for him. The purpose cannot be a coup. In other words, I think Kingmight be done, but now the MEC will have a responsibility to really get the next step right. O'Malley walking back out of this meeting Chairman, is just as bad as Roberts walking in to fight for his job.
This is part of my first draft letter to my reps, no time to format or proof-read:
I don’t really care who is in, and who isn’t, but I’m very concerned that our house divided is going to mean less contract to all of our houses in C2015. So I don’t find it very important how you got to call a recall meeting, but now that we’re here, these must always be the priorities:
1) Pulling together without attention to political issues is the ideal.
2) Resolving your political differences in private is best.
3) Going through a recall is not good, but it’s not fatal.
4) Coming out of a recall without a person with a clear mandate, and sending that poor bastard up against Anderson is not just fatal, but criminal.
There are two constituencies that benefit from this: the Company, and the DPA. When either benefits, we lose. I’m just a guy, floating around and asking questions, so I don’t know if I understand the group as well as you do. You probably know better. The people I fly with are anxious about their ability to drive the union. Every rep I’ve ever heard discuss the issue publicly, has proven that the union is a bottom-up organization by pointing out that a recall is always an option for the person voting. I think you’re going to be watched very, very closely here. You’re going to be making a statement about your values, and your willingness to stand firmly in control of the MEC. There are pro-DPA guys making the case that this didn’t happen for C2012. I really don’t know if they’re right, but I think I detect in the pro-DPA guys a weariness for what they think is a top-down union run amuck. Please don’t prove them right.
Whatever you do Thursday, please do NOT come back with an administration that is crippled by marginal support. I don’t have a particular preference for a particular person, or contempt for Kingsley. I think he could have stepped up better, and the “scourge” letter, when followed by no other message, was a big misstep. Whoever you pick, pick well, and come out with unequivocal support. Even if it takes a couple of days, or longer, please produce something coherent. Let everyone breathe a sign of relief when they see what you’ve accomplished.
Nice start to your letter. This whole political patheticness is beyond annoying. All any Delta pilot wants is good governance, not dicey politics. What is even up with that?
These guys are not politicians, they are union functionaries that, for whatever reason, have come to believe they are something more. The belief by any individual in any position of power that he owns the job or is the only person capable of holding a position has led to many a downfall. They are not royalty, we can do without every one of them, they are all replaceable.
The Delta pilots deserve more. This spat is a minor speedbump in the history of our union. It will be over soon one way or another.
To all of the other disenfranchised, non connected line swine, like me. Write a letter that gets to the heart of your concern. Keep it short and direct. Let's get this BS behind us.
10-15-2013, 02:27 PM
#223
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: A somewhere
Posts: 393
Originally Posted by scambo1
Sink,
Nice start to your letter. This whole political patheticness is beyond annoying. All any Delta pilot wants is good governance, not dicey politics. What is even up with that?
These guys are not politicians, they are union functionaries that, for whatever reason, have come to believe they are something more. The belief by any individual in any position of power that he owns the job or is the only person capable of holding a position has led to many a downfall. They are not royalty, we can do without every one of them, they are all replaceable.
The Delta pilots deserve more. This spat is a minor speedbump in the history of our union. It will be over soon one way or another.
To all of the other disenfranchised, non connected line swine, like me. Write a letter that gets to the heart of your concern. Keep it short and direct. Let's get this BS behind us.
Nice start to your letter. This whole political patheticness is beyond annoying. All any Delta pilot wants is good governance, not dicey politics. What is even up with that?
These guys are not politicians, they are union functionaries that, for whatever reason, have come to believe they are something more. The belief by any individual in any position of power that he owns the job or is the only person capable of holding a position has led to many a downfall. They are not royalty, we can do without every one of them, they are all replaceable.
The Delta pilots deserve more. This spat is a minor speedbump in the history of our union. It will be over soon one way or another.
To all of the other disenfranchised, non connected line swine, like me. Write a letter that gets to the heart of your concern. Keep it short and direct. Let's get this BS behind us.
10-15-2013, 03:53 PM
#224
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 147
Ok, a few things need to be said.
First, O'Malley will never be MEC Chairman again. He would never volunteer for the job. So please dispel that erroneous notion from your head. The same can be said for the Moak the Evil, for he is no longer at Delta. Now John Malone is always going to be a possibility as a candidate because of his particular needs and his loyal cadre, but really an incredible long shot because he is unelectable. In the unlikely event Kingsley is recalled, more likely if he resigns, the MEC will elect someone that they as a whole find suitable for the job.
Third, dysfunction within the MEC is nothing new. The merged MEC has had deep philosophical differences from day 1. These issues will continue on for many years yet. So far the philosophical differences have been manageable, but with the change in leadership of the MEC coupled with new LEC reps a shift has obviously occurred. The balance tipped so to speak. In a significant number of reps' minds the dysfunction is now threatening performance.
Finally, if I heard many good things about a rep out on the line, from people who know him and have observed his performance both at Delta and at other airlines, would it be OK here to say so? I think nobody would object other than the ones who disagree. My comment about a certain rep happens to reflect what numerous people have said to me when I inquired about him. I personally have no experience with him whatsoever and it is why I inquire. I like to know who my reps are and I have not had the opportunity to interact in person. I could have elaborated, but I think that really is unfair. But, the consistency of comments is rather uncanny. So, I tried to be as general as I could and to say that the comments were not favorable. With that in mind, I have no opinion on the man or his performance. Not enough info.
The meeting is either going to bring about a renewed unity of purpose, sufficient to overcome natural and unnatural divisions, or it will result in a fundamental change in the MEC. If a minimal level of unity cannot be salvaged in order for the MEC to function, I would hope that Kingsley would resign. If he chooses not to, then he must make it his business to lead a fractured MEC. Not an easy task. That is why I said I would hope he resigns. I would not want that job.
Lastly, I have no opinion on whether Kingsley warrants recall. I do not work for him, so I have no way of knowing. The 3 reps that I know and trust are in a position to make that determination, as well as the one I do not know enough to trust. Between the 4 of them, my interests will be represented in the end.
First, O'Malley will never be MEC Chairman again. He would never volunteer for the job. So please dispel that erroneous notion from your head. The same can be said for the Moak the Evil, for he is no longer at Delta. Now John Malone is always going to be a possibility as a candidate because of his particular needs and his loyal cadre, but really an incredible long shot because he is unelectable. In the unlikely event Kingsley is recalled, more likely if he resigns, the MEC will elect someone that they as a whole find suitable for the job.
Third, dysfunction within the MEC is nothing new. The merged MEC has had deep philosophical differences from day 1. These issues will continue on for many years yet. So far the philosophical differences have been manageable, but with the change in leadership of the MEC coupled with new LEC reps a shift has obviously occurred. The balance tipped so to speak. In a significant number of reps' minds the dysfunction is now threatening performance.
Finally, if I heard many good things about a rep out on the line, from people who know him and have observed his performance both at Delta and at other airlines, would it be OK here to say so? I think nobody would object other than the ones who disagree. My comment about a certain rep happens to reflect what numerous people have said to me when I inquired about him. I personally have no experience with him whatsoever and it is why I inquire. I like to know who my reps are and I have not had the opportunity to interact in person. I could have elaborated, but I think that really is unfair. But, the consistency of comments is rather uncanny. So, I tried to be as general as I could and to say that the comments were not favorable. With that in mind, I have no opinion on the man or his performance. Not enough info.
The meeting is either going to bring about a renewed unity of purpose, sufficient to overcome natural and unnatural divisions, or it will result in a fundamental change in the MEC. If a minimal level of unity cannot be salvaged in order for the MEC to function, I would hope that Kingsley would resign. If he chooses not to, then he must make it his business to lead a fractured MEC. Not an easy task. That is why I said I would hope he resigns. I would not want that job.
Lastly, I have no opinion on whether Kingsley warrants recall. I do not work for him, so I have no way of knowing. The 3 reps that I know and trust are in a position to make that determination, as well as the one I do not know enough to trust. Between the 4 of them, my interests will be represented in the end.
10-15-2013, 04:59 PM
#225
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by SharpestTool
Finally, if I heard many good things about a rep out on the line, from people who know him and have observed his performance both at Delta and at other airlines, would it be OK here to say so? I think nobody would object other than the ones who disagree. My comment about a certain rep happens to reflect what numerous people have said to me when I inquired about him. I personally have no experience with him whatsoever and it is why I inquire. I like to know who my reps are and I have not had the opportunity to interact in person. I could have elaborated, but I think that really is unfair. But, the consistency of comments is rather uncanny. So, I tried to be as general as I could and to say that the comments were not favorable. With that in mind, I have no opinion on the man or his performance. Not enough info.
1) You're getting ahead of yourself. You're prejudging the action of a rep ahead of the recall meeting.
2) You're repeating vague hearesay, and not backing up your assertions.
3) You're attacking a guy, and claiming to use restraint.
I'm not in that hypothetical rep's council. Can't vouch for him. Can't really line up more than four sentences of what I know about him, and they wouldn't be substantive. But you did show up in a place where (I believe) he's been a regular for a number of years. This is basically a bar, where he's a regular. It's an anonymous place, but a surprisingly hospitable space nonetheless. We have VERY different people coexisting peacefully, and a better discourse (again, surprisingly) than that old bar "1.0". You're calling the guy out, based on something he might do, based on your vague opinion about hearsay about him.
Stick to your other topics: they're an interesting counter-weight to some of the other spin. Either way, I'll defend your right to speak, and your right to anonymity within the TOS, but I think you're way off discussing a particular rep. Targeting elected reps based on what they might or might not do at the recall meeting is as wrong as wrong can be.
OTOH, IF reps can't get a handle on this Thursday, THEN we are all going to need to have some serious conversations within our own councils. This isn't a threat, veiled or otherwise: first they act, then we judge.
How's that, for fairness?
10-15-2013, 05:02 PM
#226
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by scambo1
The Delta pilots deserve more. This spat is a minor speedbump in the history of our union. It will be over soon one way or another.
To all of the other disenfranchised, non connected line swine, like me. Write a letter that gets to the heart of your concern. Keep it short and direct. Let's get this BS behind us.
To all of the other disenfranchised, non connected line swine, like me. Write a letter that gets to the heart of your concern. Keep it short and direct. Let's get this BS behind us.
10-15-2013, 05:11 PM
#227
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 758
Originally Posted by SharpestTool
Ok, a few things need to be said.
First, O'Malley will never be MEC Chairman again. He would never volunteer for the job. So please dispel that erroneous notion from your head. The same can be said for the Moak the Evil, for he is no longer at Delta. Now John Malone is always going to be a possibility as a candidate because of his particular needs and his loyal cadre, but really an incredible long shot because he is unelectable. In the unlikely event Kingsley is recalled, more likely if he resigns, the MEC will elect someone that they as a whole find suitable for the job.
Third, dysfunction within the MEC is nothing new. The merged MEC has had deep philosophical differences from day 1. These issues will continue on for many years yet. So far the philosophical differences have been manageable, but with the change in leadership of the MEC coupled with new LEC reps a shift has obviously occurred. The balance tipped so to speak. In a significant number of reps' minds the dysfunction is now threatening performance.
Finally, if I heard many good things about a rep out on the line, from people who know him and have observed his performance both at Delta and at other airlines, would it be OK here to say so? I think nobody would object other than the ones who disagree. My comment about a certain rep happens to reflect what numerous people have said to me when I inquired about him. I personally have no experience with him whatsoever and it is why I inquire. I like to know who my reps are and I have not had the opportunity to interact in person. I could have elaborated, but I think that really is unfair. But, the consistency of comments is rather uncanny. So, I tried to be as general as I could and to say that the comments were not favorable. With that in mind, I have no opinion on the man or his performance. Not enough info.
The meeting is either going to bring about a renewed unity of purpose, sufficient to overcome natural and unnatural divisions, or it will result in a fundamental change in the MEC. If a minimal level of unity cannot be salvaged in order for the MEC to function, I would hope that Kingsley would resign. If he chooses not to, then he must make it his business to lead a fractured MEC. Not an easy task. That is why I said I would hope he resigns. I would not want that job.
Lastly, I have no opinion on whether Kingsley warrants recall. I do not work for him, so I have no way of knowing. The 3 reps that I know and trust are in a position to make that determination, as well as the one I do not know enough to trust. Between the 4 of them, my interests will be represented in the end.
First, O'Malley will never be MEC Chairman again. He would never volunteer for the job. So please dispel that erroneous notion from your head. The same can be said for the Moak the Evil, for he is no longer at Delta. Now John Malone is always going to be a possibility as a candidate because of his particular needs and his loyal cadre, but really an incredible long shot because he is unelectable. In the unlikely event Kingsley is recalled, more likely if he resigns, the MEC will elect someone that they as a whole find suitable for the job.
Third, dysfunction within the MEC is nothing new. The merged MEC has had deep philosophical differences from day 1. These issues will continue on for many years yet. So far the philosophical differences have been manageable, but with the change in leadership of the MEC coupled with new LEC reps a shift has obviously occurred. The balance tipped so to speak. In a significant number of reps' minds the dysfunction is now threatening performance.
Finally, if I heard many good things about a rep out on the line, from people who know him and have observed his performance both at Delta and at other airlines, would it be OK here to say so? I think nobody would object other than the ones who disagree. My comment about a certain rep happens to reflect what numerous people have said to me when I inquired about him. I personally have no experience with him whatsoever and it is why I inquire. I like to know who my reps are and I have not had the opportunity to interact in person. I could have elaborated, but I think that really is unfair. But, the consistency of comments is rather uncanny. So, I tried to be as general as I could and to say that the comments were not favorable. With that in mind, I have no opinion on the man or his performance. Not enough info.
The meeting is either going to bring about a renewed unity of purpose, sufficient to overcome natural and unnatural divisions, or it will result in a fundamental change in the MEC. If a minimal level of unity cannot be salvaged in order for the MEC to function, I would hope that Kingsley would resign. If he chooses not to, then he must make it his business to lead a fractured MEC. Not an easy task. That is why I said I would hope he resigns. I would not want that job.
Lastly, I have no opinion on whether Kingsley warrants recall. I do not work for him, so I have no way of knowing. The 3 reps that I know and trust are in a position to make that determination, as well as the one I do not know enough to trust. Between the 4 of them, my interests will be represented in the end.
10-15-2013, 05:12 PM
#228
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by slowplay
I believe that the committee experince makes for more effective reps.
If you mean that a person has to work in committees at the MEC level, to navigate the politics for some period of time, I think you're creating a closed loop where the culture drives the rep.
I think reps should be informed and knowledgeable, yes, but they should represent the will of the pilots, and be supported by SME's, not educated as SME's, and then sent back as reps. Show me a guy with a history of working locally, in my council, and I'll show you a guy I probably would vote for.
10-15-2013, 06:18 PM
#230
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by DLpilot
I have known this rep personally and worked with him for the past 14 years. He has always worked hard to do what is best for the pilot group as a whole. He welcomes and appreciates line input from the pilots. If you had been on this board for the past two years, you would have seen how much he weighed the pros and cons of the TA before coming to his own vote. He doesn't need a top down organization to tell him how to think. He was my top vote to represent me as a rep and I am sure that a majority on this site feel the same. I back him 100% because I know that he has our best interest at heart.
Now, having said all that (and in light of what seems to be going on currently with this individual)... if someone put a gun to my head and said I HAD to vote for one of the current 4 guys in ATL, he's the one I would have to choose. But I would see it as the lesser evil and not a good choice. In my opinion, there is no good choice here.
As I've said before, I think this is all about internal DALPA power and politics. There's very little difference between the different factions. It's just a fight about who's in power and what kind of processes they want to follow. When it's all said and done, whichever of these groups that wins is going to keep going down the same path of seeking "reasonable" improvements to BK, with no intention of ever fully (or even mostly) recovering from the unreasonable cuts we took. That makes this whole thing a real snoozer for me.
Start talking serious recovery from bankruptcy cuts and then they'll have my full attention (and support). Until then, it's just everything you ever didn't want to know about making sausage out of crap.
Last edited by DAL 88 Driver; 10-15-2013 at 06:36 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
