What do the majors look for...
10-02-2014, 04:36 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,191
So you've got a Lear PIC job? Make three future resumes based on the best projections you can come up with.
Lear PIC Dash FO, then CA in 2-3 yrs E- FO for 4-6yrs, CA in 5-7.
Compare the resumes at the 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 yr marks.
Example is Lear 300 hrs/yr. In three years you'd have 1000 hrs jet PIC, and another 1000 hrs on top of your current TT.
You might, or might not, be a Dash 8 CA by then. What does that resume look like?
And you'd still be an E-170 FO. With no TPIC time. Does that stand out vs. the first two jobs?
I had a corporate PIC job as a young, young guy. Took a huge pay cut to go back to lousy commuter FO pay. The CA's wanted to be my FO at the corporation. They didn't get that I quit as CA to be THEIR FO!?!? The fact was my resume had tons of qualifications but my TT was low so I fixed that weakness. Stepping back allowed my to qualify for my next job a year later. It wouldn't have happened if I'd stayed at the corporation. Would I have made it to the majors when I did if I hadn't taken the step backwards when I did? Hard to say but my resume would have been weaker due to low TT.
Needless to say I'm a big fan of fixing weaknesses. Many of the successful guys(senior/hired young) guys were aggressive in their careers. IMO they value that drive and appreciate it when they see it on an application.
The best advice I heard about getting hired was"have a passion for this business". Figure out how to show that on your resume and when you tell your story in an interview.
Lear PIC Dash FO, then CA in 2-3 yrs E- FO for 4-6yrs, CA in 5-7.
Compare the resumes at the 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 yr marks.
Example is Lear 300 hrs/yr. In three years you'd have 1000 hrs jet PIC, and another 1000 hrs on top of your current TT.
You might, or might not, be a Dash 8 CA by then. What does that resume look like?
And you'd still be an E-170 FO. With no TPIC time. Does that stand out vs. the first two jobs?
I had a corporate PIC job as a young, young guy. Took a huge pay cut to go back to lousy commuter FO pay. The CA's wanted to be my FO at the corporation. They didn't get that I quit as CA to be THEIR FO!?!? The fact was my resume had tons of qualifications but my TT was low so I fixed that weakness. Stepping back allowed my to qualify for my next job a year later. It wouldn't have happened if I'd stayed at the corporation. Would I have made it to the majors when I did if I hadn't taken the step backwards when I did? Hard to say but my resume would have been weaker due to low TT.
Needless to say I'm a big fan of fixing weaknesses. Many of the successful guys(senior/hired young) guys were aggressive in their careers. IMO they value that drive and appreciate it when they see it on an application.
The best advice I heard about getting hired was"have a passion for this business". Figure out how to show that on your resume and when you tell your story in an interview.
10-03-2014, 06:27 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,191
Free old fart advice. If you don't like it PM me and I'll give you a full refund.
No one knows the answer to the OP's question. But various decisions or choices might improve your odds. The big answer is we'll never know if they did work so we're shooting in the dark.
Again, before reading on, remember the opinion is free and comes with a money back guarantee if you disagree(PM required for PayPal numbers).
And these are generic observations and opinions on various issues and individual resumes, due to different circumstances, might result in different recommendations.
In contact today with another guy I'm mentoring. He was missing TPIC time. None. He got a TPIC job and a Legacy job came through about 3-4 months later. Was just getting the TPIC job square filled the trigger? We'll never know. But it was probably the biggest hole in his resume. He doesn't have much TPIC but someone, or the computer, grabbed him once he got the command job. Would it have happened if he hadn't chosen an upgrade job? We'll never know.
Didn't US recently, but no longer in effect, require a new job or type rating in the last 3.5 yrs? Was that an attempt to see if the guy's out there with his foot on the pedal vs. possibly being a lump? IDK. Again, sometimes it isn't possible because of the seniority system or the equipment fleet at your airline (ie like SW) but if you've got the option I'd seriously consider it. You're fighting a software search so who knows what it's triggers are. Maybe the old US requirement was, or is, a point getter? IDK. That's assuming it's a point style system. Again IDK.
Here's a common belief/observation, guys with tons of time in one job/seat, that havn't changed one or both, in a long time, have more problems then guys that aren't in that box. Old dog and new tricks comes to mind. Was that perhaps the driving force behind US's(?) former requirement? IDK.
Just spoke with a guy that has a strong resume, good guy, recruiting knows him by name, but the bell's not ringing. We talked months ago and he decided to pitch in more. No clue if it will help get hired but he's finding it tremendously rewarding. He's better for it.
He mentioned flying with a recent ex-military guy. The guy jumped on a low paying RJ job to learn the civilian/121/pax ops gig. My contact told him "you won't be here long." Gone in a matter of months. If I was a separating military guy I'd suck it up and chase the RJ/121 flying. Yes, the pay sucks. No, there's no guarantee. Consider two options - commuter fly for a year and then chase better paying low hour gig/contract job vs. option two - better paying job first and RJ later. When would you pull the trigger and decide that maybe the commuter job might be the square you need?? I don't know but I don't see many guys quitting the better paying job and going to the lower paying job. IMO take the low paying job, fill the civilian/121/pax ops squares, live the suck as long as possible, and switch when or if you have to(500 or 1000 hrs minimum?)
The fact is more TPIC guys are getting hired than non TPIC guys. Frustrating if you can't fill that square. But work on improve the professional non-flying and volunteering aspects of your resume. You will be better for it. It will show, even if only inside you and it allows you to walk with broader shoulders.
Guys around 30 yrs old were blown away by a 42 yr old's resume. Don't compare yourself with a guy with that much more experience/age. Compare yourself with your peers and get better. When you're 10-15 yrs farther down the road your resume will be much better than it is today and the younger guys will be looking at you going "wow."
Guys debate about staying in a nice job, or taking a big jet FO job, instead of a decent enough TPIC job. That's why the advice of many is "take the upgrade". It's interesting talking with new Captains. One guy said it perhaps best "it's only 4' away but it feels like it's 40' ". Another guy said "I upgraded on the same airplane and it's amazing how much different the job is. I watched, thought I got it, but had no clue." A friend "I've met more people(CP's, supervisors, police, fleet managers, performance folks, dispatchers, agents) in six months as a Captain then I did in 20 yrs as an FO." He was knee deep in stuff, making phone calls, and the FO walked up "call me when it's all done and let me know how it went down". He looked at him and thought "hey, that used to be MY job!". Final resolution took more than a week. FO probably went home and worked on his golf swing. :-)
The guys running the hiring show are Captains. They've done the upgrade and the hiring stats, or requirements, typically show they put a greater value on command experience. Insurance companies demand it. The regulatory agencies require it. Sports talk about the difference between being the head coach and an assistant. Companies value a guy's resume who signed the checks (CFO's) or made the major decisions (COO, CEO, etc) which is why guys step 'back' into jobs that get their signatures on the decisions, before moving forward again. Being the final decider and having that authority is not a hollow check mark.
No one knows the answer to the OP's question. But various decisions or choices might improve your odds. The big answer is we'll never know if they did work so we're shooting in the dark.
Again, before reading on, remember the opinion is free and comes with a money back guarantee if you disagree(PM required for PayPal numbers).
And these are generic observations and opinions on various issues and individual resumes, due to different circumstances, might result in different recommendations.
In contact today with another guy I'm mentoring. He was missing TPIC time. None. He got a TPIC job and a Legacy job came through about 3-4 months later. Was just getting the TPIC job square filled the trigger? We'll never know. But it was probably the biggest hole in his resume. He doesn't have much TPIC but someone, or the computer, grabbed him once he got the command job. Would it have happened if he hadn't chosen an upgrade job? We'll never know.
Didn't US recently, but no longer in effect, require a new job or type rating in the last 3.5 yrs? Was that an attempt to see if the guy's out there with his foot on the pedal vs. possibly being a lump? IDK. Again, sometimes it isn't possible because of the seniority system or the equipment fleet at your airline (ie like SW) but if you've got the option I'd seriously consider it. You're fighting a software search so who knows what it's triggers are. Maybe the old US requirement was, or is, a point getter? IDK. That's assuming it's a point style system. Again IDK.
Here's a common belief/observation, guys with tons of time in one job/seat, that havn't changed one or both, in a long time, have more problems then guys that aren't in that box. Old dog and new tricks comes to mind. Was that perhaps the driving force behind US's(?) former requirement? IDK.
Just spoke with a guy that has a strong resume, good guy, recruiting knows him by name, but the bell's not ringing. We talked months ago and he decided to pitch in more. No clue if it will help get hired but he's finding it tremendously rewarding. He's better for it.
He mentioned flying with a recent ex-military guy. The guy jumped on a low paying RJ job to learn the civilian/121/pax ops gig. My contact told him "you won't be here long." Gone in a matter of months. If I was a separating military guy I'd suck it up and chase the RJ/121 flying. Yes, the pay sucks. No, there's no guarantee. Consider two options - commuter fly for a year and then chase better paying low hour gig/contract job vs. option two - better paying job first and RJ later. When would you pull the trigger and decide that maybe the commuter job might be the square you need?? I don't know but I don't see many guys quitting the better paying job and going to the lower paying job. IMO take the low paying job, fill the civilian/121/pax ops squares, live the suck as long as possible, and switch when or if you have to(500 or 1000 hrs minimum?)
The fact is more TPIC guys are getting hired than non TPIC guys. Frustrating if you can't fill that square. But work on improve the professional non-flying and volunteering aspects of your resume. You will be better for it. It will show, even if only inside you and it allows you to walk with broader shoulders.
Guys around 30 yrs old were blown away by a 42 yr old's resume. Don't compare yourself with a guy with that much more experience/age. Compare yourself with your peers and get better. When you're 10-15 yrs farther down the road your resume will be much better than it is today and the younger guys will be looking at you going "wow."
Guys debate about staying in a nice job, or taking a big jet FO job, instead of a decent enough TPIC job. That's why the advice of many is "take the upgrade". It's interesting talking with new Captains. One guy said it perhaps best "it's only 4' away but it feels like it's 40' ". Another guy said "I upgraded on the same airplane and it's amazing how much different the job is. I watched, thought I got it, but had no clue." A friend "I've met more people(CP's, supervisors, police, fleet managers, performance folks, dispatchers, agents) in six months as a Captain then I did in 20 yrs as an FO." He was knee deep in stuff, making phone calls, and the FO walked up "call me when it's all done and let me know how it went down". He looked at him and thought "hey, that used to be MY job!". Final resolution took more than a week. FO probably went home and worked on his golf swing. :-)
The guys running the hiring show are Captains. They've done the upgrade and the hiring stats, or requirements, typically show they put a greater value on command experience. Insurance companies demand it. The regulatory agencies require it. Sports talk about the difference between being the head coach and an assistant. Companies value a guy's resume who signed the checks (CFO's) or made the major decisions (COO, CEO, etc) which is why guys step 'back' into jobs that get their signatures on the decisions, before moving forward again. Being the final decider and having that authority is not a hollow check mark.
10-05-2014, 05:34 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 3,978
Originally Posted by MistyFAC
Gender change and/or skin pigmentation treatments are possible solutions to boost your application's strength. I know we all hate to admit it, but its the day and age we live in.
10-05-2014, 06:29 PM
#27
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes
Yes, if 95% of the pilots flying for major airlines were not white males, this would make sense.
The Caucasian race will soon become a minority in the US, does that mean that Caucasians will finally be able to reap the benefits that minorities enjoy in our profession?
10-05-2014, 10:01 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 3,978
Originally Posted by MistyFAC
And so that makes it ok to reverse discriminate? Shouldn't qualifications and networking be enough to get an interview regardless of race or gender?
The Caucasian race will soon become a minority in the US, does that mean that Caucasians will finally be able to reap the benefits that minorities enjoy in our profession?
The Caucasian race will soon become a minority in the US, does that mean that Caucasians will finally be able to reap the benefits that minorities enjoy in our profession?
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