Delta 30 Gates In SEA
12-13-2014, 03:25 AM
#491
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Pelican
Really Mods? Sad to say the least. With this censorship/power trip you're on, feel free to remove my account. Un real.
12-13-2014, 03:32 AM
#492
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
But before making a bet its probably worth reading some of this and ask yourself what are we really arguing about again?
Originally Posted by TOGA LK
I am seeing a few things out of context here.
Anderson focused on shrinking DL NWA his first five years after the merger. Around C2012 he attended a LCA meeting and said," Guys Delta is a 10,000 pilot airline."
He had a chance to sunset the Alaska codeshare that NWA brought but instead chose to expand it. Remember when we dropped all those Hawaii destinations? Skywest and Alaska at our gets on the other side of the country? Remember ALPA telling us they are good for our operation because management says so? Tim O pushing the agenda... Network meetings about how there are no margins in the northwest? Network comments about only x% of Delta passengers codeshare from MSP to GEG?
Then Delta ended up with some bad slots in HND and without a dance partner in Japan. We tried to steal JAL but they stayed with BK AA. In a very short period of time the yen collapsed and our coveted fifth freedom rights were marginalized. The bottom line is we have a diminishing Asian presence without SEA.
Then came the first issue, domestic feed for a SEA super hub that will overfly now defunct NRT. The first choice was Alaska. Remember "SEA is not hub", LAX is an AS carveout in Section 1 and "Delta is a 10,000 pilot airline" then staffed under 12,000 and shrinking.
The problem was Delta needed a lot of feed to do this and Alaska arranged for an unprecedented number of MRJs at Skywest. But the writing was on the wall. UAL took deliveries of 787s and AA would schedule to open a LAX 787 operation with point to point into China. Delta now well on the backside of the power curve needed two things. They needed feed and to slow AA down by reducing their feed, remember they had just closed SFO.
Alaska showed preference to AA because of their JAL alliance and that is when Anderson's outsourcing attempt failed dead in its tracks. He quickly realized he made the same mistake as Pan Am, he could not secure the domestic feed.
Here we are six years after a merger, we almost have 100 narrow body (not counting 757/767) FOs on the entire west coast and there is a major growth announcement in SEA. Anderson learned a valuable lesson about where his alliances are, how important controlling your feed is and at the same time his own employees are his best offense; this was not his Plan A.
People, please don't loose sight of the fact that we as pilots have zero control over any of this, ALPA has a national strategy and almost exclusively carries the company's propaganda.
This could all change tomorrow. I wish all the best.
Anderson focused on shrinking DL NWA his first five years after the merger. Around C2012 he attended a LCA meeting and said," Guys Delta is a 10,000 pilot airline."
He had a chance to sunset the Alaska codeshare that NWA brought but instead chose to expand it. Remember when we dropped all those Hawaii destinations? Skywest and Alaska at our gets on the other side of the country? Remember ALPA telling us they are good for our operation because management says so? Tim O pushing the agenda... Network meetings about how there are no margins in the northwest? Network comments about only x% of Delta passengers codeshare from MSP to GEG?
Then Delta ended up with some bad slots in HND and without a dance partner in Japan. We tried to steal JAL but they stayed with BK AA. In a very short period of time the yen collapsed and our coveted fifth freedom rights were marginalized. The bottom line is we have a diminishing Asian presence without SEA.
Then came the first issue, domestic feed for a SEA super hub that will overfly now defunct NRT. The first choice was Alaska. Remember "SEA is not hub", LAX is an AS carveout in Section 1 and "Delta is a 10,000 pilot airline" then staffed under 12,000 and shrinking.
The problem was Delta needed a lot of feed to do this and Alaska arranged for an unprecedented number of MRJs at Skywest. But the writing was on the wall. UAL took deliveries of 787s and AA would schedule to open a LAX 787 operation with point to point into China. Delta now well on the backside of the power curve needed two things. They needed feed and to slow AA down by reducing their feed, remember they had just closed SFO.
Alaska showed preference to AA because of their JAL alliance and that is when Anderson's outsourcing attempt failed dead in its tracks. He quickly realized he made the same mistake as Pan Am, he could not secure the domestic feed.
Here we are six years after a merger, we almost have 100 narrow body (not counting 757/767) FOs on the entire west coast and there is a major growth announcement in SEA. Anderson learned a valuable lesson about where his alliances are, how important controlling your feed is and at the same time his own employees are his best offense; this was not his Plan A.
People, please don't loose sight of the fact that we as pilots have zero control over any of this, ALPA has a national strategy and almost exclusively carries the company's propaganda.
This could all change tomorrow. I wish all the best.
12-13-2014, 07:31 AM
#494
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: DAL A320 CA
Posts: 558
Originally Posted by Packrat
What, you ran afoul of the delta mod squad? Shocker.
Seems like a pretty even playing field to me...
12-13-2014, 07:32 AM
#495
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
I've been doing the Google, looking for an accurate count of how many mainline flights Delta currently operates out of SEA, not much luck. I did find this article from a Seattle paper that mentions how many flights Delta would like to expand to, by 2017, but nothing on how many are operating today:
Delta wants 30 gates at Sea-Tac Airport in latest challenge to Alaska
Delta wants to almost triple its gates in Seattle as it continues its fight for dominance with Alaska Airlines.
By Michael Sasso
Bloomberg News
Delta Air Lines wants to almost triple its gates at the Seattle airport to expand its newest West Coast hub and jumping-off point to Asia, challenging market leader Alaska Airlines.
“We’re making good progress on our discussion to upgrade the facility and to turn Seattle into a huge international gateway for Delta,” Chief Executive Officer Richard Anderson said on a recorded message to employees.
The world’s third-largest carrier is seeking 30 gates at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport in the long term, Anderson said on the call late last week. The airline currently has 11 gates, an airport spokesman said.
Delta has been confronting Alaska on its home turf for more than a year as they fight for market share. Atlanta-based Delta has designated Seattle as a hub from which to offer an increasing number of flights to Asia. That’s been infringing on Seattle-based Alaska, which currently controls about 40 percent of the traffic from its home airport.
Anderson’s message suggests the carrier is pushing beyond a previously stated goal. In September, Seattle airport spokesman Perry Cooper said Delta wanted about 150 flights a day at the airport by 2017. That would require 19 or 20 gates, assuming eight flights a day from each gate, Cooper said.
Delta could potentially operate 240 flights a day if it takes on 30 gates, Cooper said. Sea-Tac determines how many gates to grant airlines each year according to formula using their number of outbound seats as of August, Cooper said.
“That’s one of the estimated opportunities there,” Cooper said by telephone. “But does that mean that somebody would use that many?”
At 30 gates, Delta’s Seattle operation would still be smaller than United Airlines’ hub in San Francisco, which often is seen as the dominant hub to Asia because of that market’s large Asian population. United operates out of 32 domestic gates at San Francisco International Airport and shares 12 international gates with its partner airlines in the Star Alliance, United spokeswoman Megan McCarthy said.
Delta has been boosting its domestic flights to and from Seattle to build connecting traffic, which then could fly to Asia. President Ed Bastian told analysts in a third-quarter earnings call last month that Delta’s decision to cut seats from Cincinnati and Memphis, Tennessee, while adding seats to Seattle is producing solid results.
“Seattle’s domestic performance has significantly exceeded our expectations as unit revenues increased 6 percent on a 25 percent increase in capacity, driving margin improvements year- over-year,” Bastian said.
Delta wants 30 gates at Sea-Tac Airport in latest challenge to Alaska
Delta wants to almost triple its gates in Seattle as it continues its fight for dominance with Alaska Airlines.
By Michael Sasso
Bloomberg News
Delta Air Lines wants to almost triple its gates at the Seattle airport to expand its newest West Coast hub and jumping-off point to Asia, challenging market leader Alaska Airlines.
“We’re making good progress on our discussion to upgrade the facility and to turn Seattle into a huge international gateway for Delta,” Chief Executive Officer Richard Anderson said on a recorded message to employees.
The world’s third-largest carrier is seeking 30 gates at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport in the long term, Anderson said on the call late last week. The airline currently has 11 gates, an airport spokesman said.
Delta has been confronting Alaska on its home turf for more than a year as they fight for market share. Atlanta-based Delta has designated Seattle as a hub from which to offer an increasing number of flights to Asia. That’s been infringing on Seattle-based Alaska, which currently controls about 40 percent of the traffic from its home airport.
Anderson’s message suggests the carrier is pushing beyond a previously stated goal. In September, Seattle airport spokesman Perry Cooper said Delta wanted about 150 flights a day at the airport by 2017. That would require 19 or 20 gates, assuming eight flights a day from each gate, Cooper said.
Delta could potentially operate 240 flights a day if it takes on 30 gates, Cooper said. Sea-Tac determines how many gates to grant airlines each year according to formula using their number of outbound seats as of August, Cooper said.
“That’s one of the estimated opportunities there,” Cooper said by telephone. “But does that mean that somebody would use that many?”
At 30 gates, Delta’s Seattle operation would still be smaller than United Airlines’ hub in San Francisco, which often is seen as the dominant hub to Asia because of that market’s large Asian population. United operates out of 32 domestic gates at San Francisco International Airport and shares 12 international gates with its partner airlines in the Star Alliance, United spokeswoman Megan McCarthy said.
Delta has been boosting its domestic flights to and from Seattle to build connecting traffic, which then could fly to Asia. President Ed Bastian told analysts in a third-quarter earnings call last month that Delta’s decision to cut seats from Cincinnati and Memphis, Tennessee, while adding seats to Seattle is producing solid results.
“Seattle’s domestic performance has significantly exceeded our expectations as unit revenues increased 6 percent on a 25 percent increase in capacity, driving margin improvements year- over-year,” Bastian said.
12-13-2014, 08:55 AM
#497
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,524
Originally Posted by jamesrhatcher
You're on gloopy. Here are my only rules:
(1) Five years from today delta must be at least at their current level of ops in SEA, with no company announcement of a scale back that would take them back below the levels of operations as of December 12, 2014, and
(2) James R. Hatcher must still be alive and well on this forum. Unfortunately at the rate the mods are killing my user names off, I doubt I will be active under this name in five years. If i am, then if the rules of (1) occur and delta is at or above today's operational level, you win. If not, I win and the losing party gives $100 to the winners favorite charity. Deal?
(1) Five years from today delta must be at least at their current level of ops in SEA, with no company announcement of a scale back that would take them back below the levels of operations as of December 12, 2014, and
(2) James R. Hatcher must still be alive and well on this forum. Unfortunately at the rate the mods are killing my user names off, I doubt I will be active under this name in five years. If i am, then if the rules of (1) occur and delta is at or above today's operational level, you win. If not, I win and the losing party gives $100 to the winners favorite charity. Deal?
I was going to get wrapped up in how you define current levels (flights, gates, block hours, pilots based there, ASMs, ESKs, etc) but then decided that its a safe bet that all of those will be at or above current levels anyway, plus we both get the spirit of it I think. "Mainline flights" at each seems to be the better yardstick of course.
I'll even give you double or nothing if we make it to 30 gates or not (with a 1 or 2 gate buffer for transition/construction/etc, inclusive of any official announcement, press release, tax records, etc that would serve as adequate evidence of 30 gates by Dec 2019).
12-13-2014, 09:01 AM
#498
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,524
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
This is a dumb bet. Seriously five year bet?
How about this: first airline ceo, delta or Alaskan, to admit that they're revenue or profits were off due to Deltas expansion into SEA will have their respective team player permanently banned from the site. Self ban. So james hatchet is gone is Alaskan management says it, gloopy if The Delta Air Lines management says it.
Could be said as early as the 2014 Quarterly earnings call or later.
So how about that?
How about this: first airline ceo, delta or Alaskan, to admit that they're revenue or profits were off due to Deltas expansion into SEA will have their respective team player permanently banned from the site. Self ban. So james hatchet is gone is Alaskan management says it, gloopy if The Delta Air Lines management says it.
Could be said as early as the 2014 Quarterly earnings call or later.
So how about that?
Secondly, this is about global and regional domination. I'd actually like to see DL wage, and stick around to win, a capacity dumping yield trashing fare war. We're going to have to do it (a lot I think) in the coming years anyway. Just the cost of doing bitness.
12-13-2014, 09:12 AM
#499
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 737 f/o
Posts: 299
Originally Posted by gloopy
OK first of all no deal on that, cause, well…
Secondly, this is about global and regional domination. I'd actually like to see DL wage, and stick around to win, a capacity dumping yield trashing fare war. We're going to have to do it (a lot I think) in the coming years anyway. Just the cost of doing bitness.
Secondly, this is about global and regional domination. I'd actually like to see DL wage, and stick around to win, a capacity dumping yield trashing fare war. We're going to have to do it (a lot I think) in the coming years anyway. Just the cost of doing bitness.
12-13-2014, 09:34 AM
#500
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,524
Originally Posted by Pelican
Man o man, a couple bankruptcies and a merger sure has turned you into a bunch arrogant Delta-Bags hasn't it? If we're speaking our mind, like you obviously are, I hope the global economy collapses and you all are bankrupt again in 2 years. Now that would be awesome & fun for everyone. Good luck with your "global domination"
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