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Old 03-27-2015 | 03:17 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Historical precedence of passenger jetliners shows the suicidal guy waits until you have to go to the bathroom. There are reasons to be made against a single-cockpit pilot operation. A suicidal pilot is not one of them. If one wanted to do it, he could even with two pilots - it just wouldn't be two pilots in the flight deck when it happens.

Re: Egypt Air 990 and Silk Air 185
Originally Posted by dogpilot
You sure know too much about airline suicide. Is your new job such a drag?

.......and history rears its ugly face and repeats again in a very sad, tragic way.

Sad that we were talking about this topic just 2 weeks ago.

Prayers and RIP to the 149 innocent passengers and crew.
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Old 03-27-2015 | 03:18 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Mesabah
The military drones have a very different mission, and are far and way more complicated than a single pilot aircraft would need to be.

I don't know why we are having an argument about whether the tech exists or not, it most certainly does. With 3D chips, machine learning computers are about the size of an iPhone, and cost less than $500 to make. 5 years ago, it would have taken the computer the size of a football field, and $10 million plus to drive a car by itself. The technology for single pilot has been here only very recently. The focus should be on making sure we don't allow the regs to change to make this possible. If the FAA allows 121 single pilot, in 5 years we will be transitioning to single pilot, count on it, even the current fleet can be retrofitted for single pilot in just a few years.
Do you realize the hoops that airlines have to go through just to get an EFB on board? But, you're absolutely right, we need to make sure the regs don't change.

After the Germanwings crash, I think the talk of single pilot operations will likely die down. Will the flying public accept a single pilot or drone passenger aircraft? Maybe, UNTIL the first accident, until the first ISIS hack into the datalink, until first report of a ground station losing power and CNN reports "no one was controlling the aircraft for 10 minutes!" Does the technology exist? Yes, of course it does. The technology exists to turn the ISIS strongholds into glass, but we don't use it.
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Old 03-27-2015 | 03:21 PM
  #123  
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From: guppy CA
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Originally Posted by Lobaeux
I saw her little piece on CNNMoney. You're right, the problem is datalink loss. I can't tell you how many times I've seen drones taxi right off the runway or land rather firmly.

One thing that I have yet to really see is the sense of self-preservation. A pilot has a sense of self-preservation, he will do all he can to prevent an accident. May not work, or he may make things worse, but if a drone pilot has an issue, it's like "eh" and he drives off home. No harm, no foul, a drone pilot doesn't lose his life. And don't believe it'll be one drone pilot in charge of one drone plane, you'll likely see one drone pilot controlling ten, then twenty then many, many more aircraft.
Datalink loss is a problem; another problem (as illustrated by Iran) is 'hijacking' a drone by sending electronic slgnal inputs to the drone. I guess just another form of datalink loss.

As far as controlling more than one drone at a time, how does the military do it? I'm pretty sure they only control them one at a time. Can - or better yet - will the airlines eventually go to a single controller operating several drone airliners at one time? Likely.

I would expect this to take a few years of small cargo aircraft using pilotless drones before this concept graduates to large cargo ops and then passenger transports. But I wouldn't be surprised to see this happen in my lifetime.
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Old 03-27-2015 | 03:24 PM
  #124  
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The fixes are ridiculous. Lets admit that this accident happened largely because of a fortified door that was impenetrable since 9/11. The door functioned exactly as it was supposed to. The sad part of course being that a trusted pilot was the only one on the locked side.

The point being, whatever design/fix that is implemented to prevent this from happening, 10 years from now, will then be the direct cause of a crash. In these kinds of things the fix(es) you make have the law of unintended consequences. Or unforeseen consequences.
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Old 03-27-2015 | 03:25 PM
  #125  
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From: guppy CA
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy
The point being, whatever design/fix that is implemented to prevent this from happening, 10 years from now, will then be the direct cause of a crash. In these kinds of things the fix(es) you make have the law of unintended consequences. Or unforeseen consequences.
True dat. .
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Old 03-27-2015 | 08:12 PM
  #126  
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From: Light Chop
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Originally Posted by BoilerUP
They won't.
I agree, because Germanwings.

You can't go single pilot because two psychopaths is unlikely. Although I still think international single pilot would be an easy start for the pro no pilot folks.

You can't go unmanned because imagine a psychopath on the ground that has nothing to lose.

And Iran.

With an Obamabomb.

I think it's dead after this week. Btw, Missy Cummings based her research on 11 pilots AP usage? APs are like cruise control on your car. Just because people use cruise control doesn't mean it's feasible to remove people from driving.

Besides, whatever cost savings are gained will be lost productivity when the wind exceeds auto land limits which ain't much. And Germanwings.
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Old 03-27-2015 | 08:37 PM
  #127  
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From: Light Chop
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Originally Posted by Lobaeux
Do you realize the hoops that airlines have to go through just to get an EFB on board? But, you're absolutely right, we need to make sure the regs don't change.

After the Germanwings crash, I think the talk of single pilot operations will likely die down. Will the flying public accept a single pilot or drone passenger aircraft? Maybe, UNTIL the first accident, until the first ISIS hack into the datalink, until first report of a ground station losing power and CNN reports "no one was controlling the aircraft for 10 minutes!" Does the technology exist? Yes, of course it does. The technology exists to turn the ISIS strongholds into glass, but we don't use it.
EFB cost money. Slow track.

Robot replacement pilots saves money. Fast track.
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Old 03-27-2015 | 09:33 PM
  #128  
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From: More Drag
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
EFB cost money. Slow track.

Robot replacement pilots saves money. Fast track.
Yeah, OK. Fast track (that has unlimited money).

Here's an analogy. Most people with early-construction homes in Florida won't retrofit them with the latest Miami-Dade code "approved" hurricane impact doors, windows, garage doors, other openings, etc, etc, etc. Why?

Because, even on the most modest home, it could cost at least $30,000 to upgrade all openings to approved hurricane protection. The owner "might" save $500 a year on home owners insurance. So let's see: 60 years to return the investment?! For a hurricane that may arrive? And even the ones in the past that did, the house survived since 1965 without them (they're made of brick and stucco down here).

I'll upgrade the openings when the prices become more reasonable, or buy a newer house where they come built with this new "Miami-Dade" code opening protection. It's just not worth it financially the way it is.

Point is, add a whole bunch of zeros to that. Then install in a wide and varied aged fleet of airliners, to airline BODs which cannot afford, nor the government, the kind of automation and retro fit that is required. We can't even fly point to point yet for crying out loud. How long has that technology been available?
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Old 03-28-2015 | 02:23 AM
  #129  
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From: C47 PIC/747-400 SIC
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I'm glad to have had a career that started in a DC-3 freighter , and has spanned the727,and the Whale in its various iterations, the future generations may look upon all that the way we look at tall ships.
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Old 03-28-2015 | 07:08 AM
  #130  
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From: Prime Leader of Boko Harumph
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Originally Posted by Boomer
If going pilot-less requires an entirely new airplane design, I think the safest pilot job will be at Delta Air Lines.
Who will call for a "Wind Check"?
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