Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Major
Single Operating Captain >

Single Operating Captain

Search

Notices
Major Legacy, National, and LCC

Single Operating Captain

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 03-28-2015 | 07:27 AM
  #131  
ClickClickBoom's Avatar
MK Ultra Candidate
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
From: Prime Leader of Boko Harumph
Default

Originally Posted by Mesabah
Yes, a jetliner is much easier to automate because it always remains in a controlled environment.

The advantage of single pilot is that you get to go direct everywhere with no delays. You guys are trying to apply single pilot to the current system, and that won't work. It requires a new system that is currently in development.

All a hacker could do is change the aircraft's destination airport. That's the future of flying, your flight plan is LGA direct ATL for example. The computer knows where all other aircraft are, so it plots a trajectory to avoid conflict. There is no altitude selector, heading selector, no ILS's, no VOR's, no airways, and no ATC to talk to. The first pilot is there to simply take manual control if all automation fails. What does the second pilot do in that situation?
Who gets the optimal altitude for fuel burn, auction? Pizza delivered, what about Southwest, scorching through the skies vs American plodding through the ether. Problem is the digital solution in an analog world is generations away, throw in Mother Nature and her pesky CBs, and who will determine if precip is light, medium, or heavy? Will the radar measure the average density of the falling precip, what if it isn't falling but going up in a CB and the computer doesn't have code for that recognization?
The airlines love it when the government, via the FAA and NASA try to solve economic issues for them, but this is like going hunting with a Hellen Keller Labrador retriever and Dick Cheney, it will be fun to watch, from a long distance. And given our latest German mass murderer, what if he was the guy in controll/monitoring of 10-12 flights from the ground?
Reply
Old 03-28-2015 | 07:42 AM
  #132  
ClickClickBoom's Avatar
MK Ultra Candidate
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
From: Prime Leader of Boko Harumph
Default

Originally Posted by ShyGuy
The sad part of course being that a trusted pilot was the only one on the locked side.
And why was he "trusted"? Longevity has a few upsides, track record is one, this guy was new, really new, and wanted to fly so bad he tore up Dr's notes, be really interesting see what was wrong with him.
I have actually had passengers ask me if my F/O was old enought to drive? I have never had a passenger ask me if I was. So all the old guy/gummer haters, have another reason to hate us, our bichen cars, multiple houses, hot girlfriends, and now our track records. Toss in our astounding inability to care about spelling and/or grammar, should push many over, the already close edge.
Reply
Old 03-28-2015 | 07:50 AM
  #133  
Banned
 
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: A320/321 CA
Default

Originally Posted by Mesabah
The military drones have a very different mission, and are far and way more complicated than a single pilot aircraft would need to be.

I don't know why we are having an argument about whether the tech exists or not, it most certainly does. With 3D chips, machine learning computers are about the size of an iPhone, and cost less than $500 to make. 5 years ago, it would have taken the computer the size of a football field, and $10 million plus to drive a car by itself. The technology for single pilot has been here only very recently. The focus should be on making sure we don't allow the regs to change to make this possible. If the FAA allows 121 single pilot, in 5 years we will be transitioning to single pilot, count on it, even the current fleet can be retrofitted for single pilot in just a few years.
Blah blah blah. Not going to happen.
Reply
Old 03-28-2015 | 08:38 AM
  #134  
Gets Weekends Off
Liked
25M+ Airline Miles
Line Holder
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,821
Likes: 153
From: window seat
Default

Originally Posted by forgot to bid
My bet still remains on them figuring out a way to make a 3 or 4 man augmented crew into a 2 man crew.

So 2 man until TOC then single pilot with ground link until TOD then back to 2 man.
To impliment "ground link" is incredibly expensive though. It can be done easily with modern technology, but not at a cost cheaper than the 3rd pilot. The 4th pilot on ULH flights may be on the chopping block eventually though, as that wouldn't require any self flying hocus pocus.
Reply
Old 03-28-2015 | 08:41 AM
  #135  
Gets Weekends Off
Liked
25M+ Airline Miles
Line Holder
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,821
Likes: 153
From: window seat
Default

Originally Posted by ClickClickBoom
Who will call for a "Wind Check"?
Your mom calls wind check.
Reply
Old 03-28-2015 | 08:44 AM
  #136  
Gets Weekends Off
Liked
25M+ Airline Miles
Line Holder
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,821
Likes: 153
From: window seat
Default

Originally Posted by Mesabah
In the event of pilot incapacitation, an FA could take over the controls, and be talked down, there is no need for all this redundancy as stated above.
OMG thanks for the laugh that was awesome!
Reply
Old 03-28-2015 | 09:00 AM
  #137  
Banned
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,006
Likes: 0
From: doggy style
Default

Originally Posted by Mesabah

All a hacker could do is change the aircraft's destination airport. That's the future of flying, your flight plan is LGA direct ATL for example. The computer knows where all other aircraft are, so it plots a trajectory to avoid conflict. There is no altitude selector, heading selector, no ILS's, no VOR's, no airways, and no ATC to talk to. The first pilot is there to simply take manual control if all automation fails. What does the second pilot do in that situation?
You're overly-simplistic view on this reflects on your lack of experience as a pilot.


First off, if the automation fails, what makes you assume this will always be a single failure? Now you've got a guy hand flying and trying to troubleshoot. Good luck with that one.

Let's talk about the airspace in the Northeast. One guy gets deviated. With as close spacing as you are talking, this could have a ripple effect, affecting the "plotted trajectory" of thousands of aircraft.

How do you handle thunderstorms? How about moderate chop FL300 and above? All these aircraft have "plotted trajectories" and the system has just been kinked by environmental factors. Can you fathom the logistical nightmare that will be created? Throw in a failure and it is a nightmare scenario.

Oh, and what if there's a datalink failure? You've got 500 airplanes in a single sector with automation failure now. That's got disaster written all over it.

Last, you cannot do this without either completely eliminating or incorporating GA. Do you propose we ground every single 172 and Learjet to implement this system?
Reply
Old 03-28-2015 | 09:16 AM
  #138  
GogglesPisano's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
20M Airline Miles
10 Years
Gets Weekends Off
50 Countries Visited
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,495
Likes: 227
From: Sitting SC at the Five Towns
Default

Originally Posted by gloopy
OMG thanks for the laugh that was awesome!
No kidding. If Karen Black couldn't hack it, and Charleton Heston had to be lowered into the cockpit from a helicopter...
Reply
Old 03-28-2015 | 09:52 AM
  #139  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,213
Likes: 14
From: guppy CA
Default

Originally Posted by Mesabah
In the event of pilot incapacitation, an FA could take over the controls, and be talked down, there is no need for all this redundancy as stated above.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQbj9uvYL8I
Reply
Old 03-28-2015 | 11:56 AM
  #140  
:-)
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by DENpilot
You're overly-simplistic view on this reflects on your lack of experience as a pilot.


First off, if the automation fails, what makes you assume this will always be a single failure? Now you've got a guy hand flying and trying to troubleshoot. Good luck with that one.

Let's talk about the airspace in the Northeast. One guy gets deviated. With as close spacing as you are talking, this could have a ripple effect, affecting the "plotted trajectory" of thousands of aircraft.

How do you handle thunderstorms? How about moderate chop FL300 and above? All these aircraft have "plotted trajectories" and the system has just been kinked by environmental factors. Can you fathom the logistical nightmare that will be created? Throw in a failure and it is a nightmare scenario.

Oh, and what if there's a datalink failure? You've got 500 airplanes in a single sector with automation failure now. That's got disaster written all over it.

Last, you cannot do this without either completely eliminating or incorporating GA. Do you propose we ground every single 172 and Learjet to implement this system?
All problems that can be dealt with, plus you still have a pilot on board. This is not some fantasy, the i4D trajectory system is already in trial runs now. It is being sold as a solution to global warming. ATC will eventually be reduced to a skeleton crew, you won't be talking to them in the future.

SESAR | Partnering for smarter aviation
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Guard Dude
Delta
201736
04-06-2022 06:59 AM
SoCalGuy
United
178
05-19-2019 03:13 AM
WeaselBoy
Major
94
07-29-2009 09:24 PM
Flameout
Major
64
09-17-2008 02:40 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices