Originally Posted by sailingfun

I know you are new to the industry and I suspect your knowledge of Delta scope is limited to what you read here. Clearly however you understand that network is important. The scope Delta has with AK/KLM is serving us well. We fly 55% of the alliance flights with AF/KLM flying 45%. We are adding UK flying with the JV inked with virgin. Currently Delta pilots fly more flights across the pond then any other airline.
On the domestic side the scope changes have required the company to shift large blocks of flying back to the mainline. We are hiring 130 pilots a month for that reason. Anytime Delta puts a RJ into SEA they have to replace that flight with a mainline flight somewhere else. They can't add RJ flying and in fact have to shrink it. Alaska was the glaring hole in our domestic scope. Delta management wanted to expand that relationship but Alaska did not want to give Delta the priority they needed for international feed. Both sides made business choices they feel are for the best. It certainly is turning out well for the Delta pilot group. We have more then doubled the size of the SEA base since 08 and it will be triple the size this time next year.
The problem you have at Alaska which most of your pilots fully recognize is that you have scoped one aircraft type and have very little protection otherwise. If Alaska decides to buy a 140 seat C series they can put it up for bid. Your going to have to beat Horizon, Skywest and Republic in a auction. That hurts the entire industry because it's almost certainly going to result in a B scale if you retain the flying. We all hope that does not happen because it drags the entire industry down. Those of us who have been here a few years have seen all this before. At Delta we once had to make a choice to lower our block hour cots on the 737-200 to SWA levels or lose the flying to Comair.
Many of your pilots advocated hard for real scope in your last contact. Time will tell how things turn out. Perhaps Alaska management will be very benevelant and things will go well. Let's hope so!

Originally Posted by Ed Harley

Good post Sailing. I've read many of Cricket's posts and it's disturbing how he doesn't seem to get the big picture. He fly's a 737 and he appears giddy about doing more of AA's flying because Alaska pilots are cheaper than AA's.

Originally Posted by Timbo

That's because he's brand new to the industry.

In time, he'll learn, just like we all did, the hard way.

In the mean time, remember, he's only got lightly more "airline pilot" experience than Peter Garrison does....

Originally Posted by F15Cricket

1. Being new to this industry does not mean I am wrong, just as you two being old timers doesn't make you right. Experience does count, but I have read a LOT about the history and current status of this industry in the last year. In addition, I have been around people talking about and transitioning to this industry since the early 1980s. Just two of many examples: my father-in-law of almost 27 years is a retired NWA pilot, and a pilot friend from the church I went to in high school has worked for Southern, then Republic, then NWA, now DAL. So, I have done my homework.

2. Mr. Harley, why would I not be giddy for my company to pick up more flying? Also, how is flying the world's most produced airliner a bad thing? Y'all are on here saying how great it is you are getting flying back from the regionals ... And putting them in the MD88?! Aren't you guys complaining about how your wide body fleet is dwindling? Your company's future also holds more 737 flying ... (Don't you have 100 on order?).

3. Finally, it is sad how seemingly intelligent pilots make so many non-intelligent posts on here (airline pilot central, NOT air line pilot central). As we used to say in the fighter squadron bar, if you don't have a point, at least say something funny! . Some of y'all (and me!) could definitely learn from FTB!

Originally Posted by Ed Harley

Like Sailing said above, the Alaska pilots may be confronted soon with Alaska Airlines buying C100 jets and the decision on who flies them may come down to which pilot group is cheapest (Alaska, Horizon, SkyWest). What will the Alaska pilots do if Alaska puts that flying out for bid?

Originally Posted by Ed Harley

So you'd be ok if Horizon buys 737's and Alaska inks a deal whereby they begin flying SEA-JUN and many other Alaska Airline routes?

Don't get me wrong, Alaska is a good airline with good management and good pilots. But you are bottom feeders. That's been your business model for the last 10 years that allowed you to grow at the expense of the Legacy airlines that were "too expensive".

Like Sailing said above, the Alaska pilots may be confronted soon with Alaska Airlines buying C100 jets and the decision on who flies them may come down to which pilot group is cheapest (Alaska, Horizon, SkyWest). What will the Alaska pilots do if Alaska puts that flying out for bid?

Originally Posted by F15Cricket

1. Being new to this industry does not mean I am wrong, just as you two being old timers doesn't make you right. Experience does count, but I have read a LOT about the history and current status of this industry in the last year. In addition, I have been around people talking about and transitioning to this industry since the early 1980s. Just two of many examples: my father-in-law of almost 27 years is a retired NWA pilot, and a pilot friend from the church I went to in high school has worked for Southern, then Republic, then NWA, now DAL. So, I have done my homework.

2. Mr. Harley, why would I not be giddy for my company to pick up more flying? Also, how is flying the world's most produced airliner a bad thing? Y'all are on here saying how great it is you are getting flying back from the regionals ... And putting them in the MD88?! Aren't you guys complaining about how your wide body fleet is dwindling? Your company's future also holds more 737 flying ... (Don't you have 100 on order?).

3. Finally, it is sad how seemingly intelligent pilots make so many non-intelligent posts on here (airline pilot central, NOT air line pilot central). As we used to say in the fighter squadron bar, if you don't have a point, at least say something funny! . Some of y'all (and me!) could definitely learn from FTB!

Originally Posted by F15Cricket

1. Being new to this industry does not mean I am wrong, just as you two being old timers doesn't make you right. Experience does count, but I have read a LOT about the history and current status of this industry in the last year. In addition, I have been around people talking about and transitioning to this industry since the early 1980s. Just two of many examples: my father-in-law of almost 27 years is a retired NWA pilot, and a pilot friend from the church I went to in high school has worked for Southern, then Republic, then NWA, now DAL. So, I have done my homework.

2. Mr. Harley, why would I not be giddy for my company to pick up more flying? Also, how is flying the world's most produced airliner a bad thing? Y'all are on here saying how great it is you are getting flying back from the regionals ... And putting them in the MD88?! Aren't you guys complaining about how your wide body fleet is dwindling? Your company's future also holds more 737 flying ... (Don't you have 100 on order?).

3. Finally, it is sad how seemingly intelligent pilots make so many non-intelligent posts on here (airline pilot central, NOT air line pilot central). As we used to say in the fighter squadron bar, if you don't have a point, at least say something funny! . Some of y'all (and me!) could definitely learn from FTB!

Originally Posted by buzzpat

Cricket, there's also a saying in the squadron bar. If you don't have anything intelligent to say, don't open your mouth and prove it.

In a lot of ways you remind me of myself. I thought I knew it all too when I retired from the USAF and came to the airlines in 2001. I quickly learned I was wrong about a lot. My advice to you would be to listen to the guys that have been around for awhile. Especially as it regards scope. Or not. Carry on.

Originally Posted by F15Cricket

That was my point, but it does not appear to be the APC way! If it were, the DAL L&G thread would have 180 posts, not 180k!

And thanks for the advice, but your wrong assumptions are:
- that I think I know it all (I know I don't, but many here act like they do know it all--if you aren't continually learning in the flying game then you should retire now!)
- I do listen to old timers, as well as new guys--everyone has a different perspective and provides a unique viewpoint on these topics, NOT just those who have been doing it awhile.
- that I am not concerned about our scope.

My advice to you is that new guys (or any pilot, for that matter) should not be disregarded. Especially as it concerns anything related to flying or this industry. Or not. Carry on.