The Emirates Advantage… Not just subsidies
04-12-2015, 10:05 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
ShyGuy,
And everyone one of those Chinese workers is better off than they were before working making clothing, iPhones, iPads, etc. and every Westerner who bought those items has the savings from buying (enter country) goods that are less expensive than if produced here. It's called comparative advantage and, ever since Ricardo postulated the theory we've all, Chinese, Vietnamese, and a Western have been better off.
GF
PS: His theory also killed off the English landed aristocracy.
And everyone one of those Chinese workers is better off than they were before working making clothing, iPhones, iPads, etc. and every Westerner who bought those items has the savings from buying (enter country) goods that are less expensive than if produced here. It's called comparative advantage and, ever since Ricardo postulated the theory we've all, Chinese, Vietnamese, and a Western have been better off.
GF
PS: His theory also killed off the English landed aristocracy.
The sweet irony. You do realize that the same can be said for the migrant laborers of Qatar? They left crapholes in India and Bangladesh to find work - even if their passport was confiscated, they make more in Qatar than what they would in Bangladesh.
Or does that point only matter when people are trying to put down Qatar Airways and other ME carriers?
04-12-2015, 11:15 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
And to add to the above, how about airlines here hire third world country pilots from Africa and Asia and pay them 1/3 of what they are paying you? Those pilots will then be better off than what they were before, and the public benefits with lowered ticket prices due to the huge decrease in labor costs. Everybody wins. But you.
Only a self-centered, out of touch airline pilot would tell a 15 year old making your t-shirts for less than a dollar per day that he is better off than what he was doing before (most likely, working on his family's land/property). You have the American idea of poor. Poor here is a family of four making $14,000 per year. There are places in the world where a family of 4, if given 14,000 US dollars for a year, it would be as if heaven itself rained on them. Come to the s---hole third world country I was born in and I will show you poor. Then you can tell them that they are better off than they were, now that they work in unsanitary, unsafe, brutal conditions making your t-shirts and sporting goods for pennies a day.
Hope your iPhone and iPad are running great. Do you care those jobs were lost to third world countries while the companies, all US-based, rake in the profits and make less jobs here in the US?
Only a self-centered, out of touch airline pilot would tell a 15 year old making your t-shirts for less than a dollar per day that he is better off than what he was doing before (most likely, working on his family's land/property). You have the American idea of poor. Poor here is a family of four making $14,000 per year. There are places in the world where a family of 4, if given 14,000 US dollars for a year, it would be as if heaven itself rained on them. Come to the s---hole third world country I was born in and I will show you poor. Then you can tell them that they are better off than they were, now that they work in unsanitary, unsafe, brutal conditions making your t-shirts and sporting goods for pennies a day.
Hope your iPhone and iPad are running great. Do you care those jobs were lost to third world countries while the companies, all US-based, rake in the profits and make less jobs here in the US?
04-13-2015, 04:58 AM
#43
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
And to add to the above, how about airlines here hire third world country pilots from Africa and Asia and pay them 1/3 of what they are paying you? Those pilots will then be better off than what they were before, and the public benefits with lowered ticket prices due to the huge decrease in labor costs. Everybody wins. But you.
Only a self-centered, out of touch airline pilot would tell a 15 year old making your t-shirts for less than a dollar per day that he is better off than what he was doing before (most likely, working on his family's land/property). You have the American idea of poor. Poor here is a family of four making $14,000 per year. There are places in the world where a family of 4, if given 14,000 US dollars for a year, it would be as if heaven itself rained on them. Come to the s---hole third world country I was born in and I will show you poor. Then you can tell them that they are better off than they were, now that they work in unsanitary, unsafe, brutal conditions making your t-shirts and sporting goods for pennies a day.
Hope your iPhone and iPad are running great. Do you care those jobs were lost to third world countries while the companies, all US-based, rake in the profits and make less jobs here in the US?
Only a self-centered, out of touch airline pilot would tell a 15 year old making your t-shirts for less than a dollar per day that he is better off than what he was doing before (most likely, working on his family's land/property). You have the American idea of poor. Poor here is a family of four making $14,000 per year. There are places in the world where a family of 4, if given 14,000 US dollars for a year, it would be as if heaven itself rained on them. Come to the s---hole third world country I was born in and I will show you poor. Then you can tell them that they are better off than they were, now that they work in unsanitary, unsafe, brutal conditions making your t-shirts and sporting goods for pennies a day.
Hope your iPhone and iPad are running great. Do you care those jobs were lost to third world countries while the companies, all US-based, rake in the profits and make less jobs here in the US?
Just because no one challenged you, can you provide a source where the majority of chinese sweatshop workers are only making a dollar a day? I know they aren't making $50k, but they are getting mere than a dollar.
A factory who I contracted with in china paid their employees $700/month...no a kings ransom, but in china a very good job.
04-13-2015, 06:21 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Posts: 521
ShyGuy,
What are you using to make your posts? No smartphone, no tablet, no computer? ALL of them are made overseas.
The place where I take my car for service has 2 very nice young men who wash the cars after service. They make about $10 a day. Housing, transportation to and from work is provided, as is food. Are they better off??? Yes, they are, and they will show you. Show you the pictures of the houses they own back home. That they can send their children to school. The children and the wife eat several meals per day. All for a little over $300 per month. It is something that will take a western's breath away until you can see behind it. Is it right?? Of course not, but they are still better off.
Most westerners have ZERO idea of what poor is. ZERO. Having traveled the world for work and vacation, I have seen a lot of it. I previously dated a girl in Bangkok who had a nice office job, compared to most in Thailand. My allowance on a 2 night layover was HALF her monthly salary. Even without specific numbers, let that sink in for a minute.
If expats in these foreign countries are giving up their passports, that is their own fault. Companies are not allowed to do that in the UAE. These people are just aggressively pressed into "willfully" handing them over. Read the print inside of your passport and then see if you would give it up. Me? No chance, and someone's chance of "taking" if from me....slim to none.
I know of several US guys that have gotten hired recently back into carriers in the US. Always the same with other guys asking about going back. For me, not yet. I am still enjoying things for the most part. I fly ULRs and have never touched 100hrs, and yes I track it. Maybe in 3 more years, but I talk to plenty that have applications in at at least 1 carrier.
I do know that EK is short. A few planes here and there are going into "long maintenance". Talked with several guys who all got called for a flight recently. Nobody accepted, which is good.
What are you using to make your posts? No smartphone, no tablet, no computer? ALL of them are made overseas.
The place where I take my car for service has 2 very nice young men who wash the cars after service. They make about $10 a day. Housing, transportation to and from work is provided, as is food. Are they better off??? Yes, they are, and they will show you. Show you the pictures of the houses they own back home. That they can send their children to school. The children and the wife eat several meals per day. All for a little over $300 per month. It is something that will take a western's breath away until you can see behind it. Is it right?? Of course not, but they are still better off.
Most westerners have ZERO idea of what poor is. ZERO. Having traveled the world for work and vacation, I have seen a lot of it. I previously dated a girl in Bangkok who had a nice office job, compared to most in Thailand. My allowance on a 2 night layover was HALF her monthly salary. Even without specific numbers, let that sink in for a minute.
If expats in these foreign countries are giving up their passports, that is their own fault. Companies are not allowed to do that in the UAE. These people are just aggressively pressed into "willfully" handing them over. Read the print inside of your passport and then see if you would give it up. Me? No chance, and someone's chance of "taking" if from me....slim to none.
I know of several US guys that have gotten hired recently back into carriers in the US. Always the same with other guys asking about going back. For me, not yet. I am still enjoying things for the most part. I fly ULRs and have never touched 100hrs, and yes I track it. Maybe in 3 more years, but I talk to plenty that have applications in at at least 1 carrier.
I do know that EK is short. A few planes here and there are going into "long maintenance". Talked with several guys who all got called for a flight recently. Nobody accepted, which is good.
04-13-2015, 06:42 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,193
Originally Posted by scambo1
Shy guy,
Just because no one challenged you, can you provide a source where the majority of chinese sweatshop workers are only making a dollar a day? I know they aren't making $50k, but they are getting mere than a dollar.
A factory who I contracted with in china paid their employees $700/month...no a kings ransom, but in china a very good job.
Just because no one challenged you, can you provide a source where the majority of chinese sweatshop workers are only making a dollar a day? I know they aren't making $50k, but they are getting mere than a dollar.
A factory who I contracted with in china paid their employees $700/month...no a kings ransom, but in china a very good job.
04-13-2015, 09:18 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,160
From Pprune:
How many Pilots have left/Leaving Emirates - Page 8 - PPRuNe Forums
Post 150
I don't see any advantage to giving preferential hiring to the ME3. There are plenty of pilots that are stepping in to replace everyone hired away from Emirates and I'd expect it to be the same at other ME carriers.
I ran the last 12 months of EK Pilot Seniority Lists in some comparison software. Here are the facts for the May 2014 to May 2015 period:
- 123 resignations, terminations and "retirements" etc.
- 300 new joiners.
As far as percentages go, if you go on the current pilot numbers of 3776 then that's a 12 month attrition rate of 3.25%. If you go on the May 2014 Pilot numbers of 3598 then it's an attrition rate of 3.41%.
Next "wash up", see how those numbers go down when the BS is flowing thick and fast.
It would be excellent and a lot more informative for those who have watched the recruitment DVD too many times, while tucking into the coolaid, if one of our more economically savvy comrades could come up with the real statistics on how much our TC's such as hourly rate and salary against inflation and costs of living in Dubai have slide down the crapper over say the last 1, 2, 5 and 10 years. Then we would all have the facts instead of a post that drifts like the infernal sand.........
Remember, a good Pilot knows he should just SuckItUp...........
- 123 resignations, terminations and "retirements" etc.
- 300 new joiners.
As far as percentages go, if you go on the current pilot numbers of 3776 then that's a 12 month attrition rate of 3.25%. If you go on the May 2014 Pilot numbers of 3598 then it's an attrition rate of 3.41%.
Next "wash up", see how those numbers go down when the BS is flowing thick and fast.
It would be excellent and a lot more informative for those who have watched the recruitment DVD too many times, while tucking into the coolaid, if one of our more economically savvy comrades could come up with the real statistics on how much our TC's such as hourly rate and salary against inflation and costs of living in Dubai have slide down the crapper over say the last 1, 2, 5 and 10 years. Then we would all have the facts instead of a post that drifts like the infernal sand.........
Remember, a good Pilot knows he should just SuckItUp...........
Post 150
I don't see any advantage to giving preferential hiring to the ME3. There are plenty of pilots that are stepping in to replace everyone hired away from Emirates and I'd expect it to be the same at other ME carriers.
04-13-2015, 11:56 AM
#47
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by Big E 757
They confiscate your passport when you return "in country", correct? Is there any way they could force guys to stay or turn the screws on guys vis a vi changing the rules for leaving...refusing to handover retirement savings and such?
I'd be worried if a lot of guys started leaving a few months before my exit. Good luck guys. If I knew anyone in management here I'd start hinting about this but unfortunately, I don't.
I'd be worried if a lot of guys started leaving a few months before my exit. Good luck guys. If I knew anyone in management here I'd start hinting about this but unfortunately, I don't.
That's a HUGE red flag......if true.
There was no mention of that during their road shows
04-13-2015, 12:47 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: A320 Left seat
Posts: 2,580
Originally Posted by RazzorAPC
What? Are you saying that they TAKE YOUR PASSPORT when you start working for them?
That's a HUGE red flag......if true.
There was no mention of that during their road shows
That's a HUGE red flag......if true.
There was no mention of that during their road shows
04-13-2015, 12:55 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,160
Originally Posted by Big E 757
I thought I read that...I've never worked there but someone said when you finish your trip, a company representative meets the aircraft to "accept" the crew's passports. I am not sure though.
To that end, I doubt that Emirates keeps their pilot passports. ... and for what it's worth, you can get two passports at the same time.
04-13-2015, 12:57 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: tri current
Posts: 1,485
Originally Posted by Big E 757
But I wonder, after a couple hundred left to come back, would there be any blowback on the remaining pilots over there as they tried to leave? They confiscate your passport when you return "in country", correct? Is there any way they could force guys to stay or turn the screws on guys vis a vi changing the rules for leaving...refusing to handover retirement savings and such?
Not correct.
TP
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