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Emirates Orders 50 Boeing 777s

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Emirates Orders 50 Boeing 777s

Old 11-13-2011, 12:38 PM
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Default Emirates Orders 50 Boeing 777s

This is great news for Boeing and the Pacific Northwest. Hopefully this means greatly increased hiring of pilots as well.

From Associated Press:

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates Dubai's fast-growing airline Emirates kicked off the Middle East's biggest airshow Sunday with a huge order for 50 Boeing 777s, marking the U.S. aircraft maker's biggest-ever single order in dollar terms.
Emirates and Boeing Co. valued the unexpectedly large deal for an extended range version of the 777-300 at $18 billion - the total by list price - though the carrier is unlikely to pay that much. Airlines typically negotiate big discounts, especially when buying in bulk.
Emirates has an option to buy another 20 777s as part of the order. That would push the deal's face value to $26 billion.
The deal further establishes Emirates as Boeing's best customer for the twin-engine 777, a workhorse of the carrier's long-haul fleet.
Emirates has 95 777s in service and already had another 40 on the order books. That means it now has nearly as many of the twin-aisle planes on order as it operates.
"The 777 has really served Emirates very well in terms of the seat cost, especially when we see that the fuel price today is very high," Emirates Chairman and CEO Sheik Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum said in announcing the deal.
Earlier this month, Emirates posted a profit of $225 million for the first half of its fiscal year. That was a 76 percent decline from what it made during the same period a year earlier, a drop it linked in part to soaring fuel prices.
Although the Gulf airlines are the among the world's most ambitious in expanding their fleets and routes, a deal the size of the Emirates contract had not been expected at the airshow, which began Sunday. It and rivals such as Abu Dhabi-based Etihad and Qatar Airways have a massive backlog of planes already on order.
Chicago-based Boeing Co. said the deal is the largest single aircraft order in dollar terms in its history.
"It sustains a lot of jobs in the United States - several thousand," said Jim Albaugh, president and CEO of Boeing Commercial Airplanes.
Boeing currently churns out seven 777s per month and expects to raise production levels to a rate of 8.3 of the planes a month soon, Albaugh said.
Emirates is by far the Middle East's largest carrier and has over 160 aircraft in service. It is owned by the government of Dubai, which is recovering from a debt-fueled financial crisis that came to a head two years ago.
Its young fleet also includes Airbus A330s, A340s and the double-decker A380.
Dubai's ruler, Sheik Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, attended Sunday's signing ceremony, underscoring the central role the carrier plays in the city-state's trade and tourism-dependent economy. Emirates' CEO is the ruler's uncle.
Emirates plans to pay for its additional 777s with a variety of financing options, including U.S. government-backed export credits, Sheik Ahmed said. He said the company doesn't expect to have problems securing funding and has financing for existing plane deliveries lined up through next August.
Among the nearly 240 planes Emirates has on order are 70 Airbus A350s, a new long range jet designed to compete against Boeing's recently introduced 787 Dreamliner.
Airbus parent company EADS NV last week took a 200 million euro ($273 million) charge to its third-quarter earnings because of the latest delay in the launch of the A350. The European plane maker now expects the A350 will enter service during the first half of 2014, up to six months later than previously forecast.
Sheik Ahmed said Emirates' decision to double down on the 777 "has nothing to do with the delays on the A350."
"It's part of the Emirates expansion. We always find new markets," he said.
Engine maker Rolls-Royce snagged two deals of its own at the start of the show.
The British manufacturer said it received an order from Saudi Arabian Airlines worth up to $500 million for engines and support for four Airbus A330s, as well as options to outfit four more of the planes. A second order from Garuda Indonesia Airlines for Trent 700 engines to power four Airbus A330s is worth $280 million at list prices, Rolls-Royce said.
Also Sunday, the European defense consortium Eurofighter said it has been asked by the United Arab Emirates air force to assemble a bid to potentially supply it with Typhoon fighter jets. The request follows preliminary discussions on the fighter that took place last month.
"We are now working hard to deliver a response" to the bid request, Eurofighter said.
The surprise move calls into question the UAE's plans to buy up to 60 Rafale fighter jets from France's Dassault Aviation. The French plane maker has been in talks with the UAE for several years over the fighters but has yet to close the deal.
Emirati officials in Dubai are getting an up-close look of the Typhoon and Rafale, which both saw action in NATO's mission over Libya. Both planes take flight during the show's afternoon flight demonstrations, as do American-made F-15, F-16 and F-18 fighters.

Boeing news | Emirates airline orders 50 more Boeing 777s | Seattle Times Newspaper
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:09 AM
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I think most of us EK drivers see this as nothing more than instead of flying the current 95 hours a month that we fly.... this will only increase our already unsustainable rosters to over 100 a month. We all wonder where on earth they'll get the qualified pilots to fly these. Some say these are replacements aircraft.... bullocks!! EK has no intention of staying status quo. The mean to take over the world. The CEO has said the only reason he won't buy more 380's is the limited space at the Dubai airport.

And if you've ever flown into Dubai at the midnight hour with all the Ek flights coming in from Europe, India, and South Africa.... hope you're not too anxious to land because you're in for a hold each and every night for at least 20 minutes followed by 20 more mins of vectoring... each and every night. So while the roster says we fly 95 per month originally, it's more like 100 by the end of the month with all this holding done.... only to see next months roster at yet another 95 hours. Ek could make at least twice the profit if they had a somewhat reasonable arrival structure, so they wouldn't burn all the excess fuel each night, each airplane, every single night of the year.

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Old 11-18-2011, 02:31 AM
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What are the flight time regulations in the UAE?
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Old 11-18-2011, 03:31 AM
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I just cannot see how EK can sustain that growth without hiring DEC's, I know it is not a popular view and I have heard all the horror stories about how much training they had to give to the DEC's back when they did it, yadda, yadda (although these guys are flying the line there now, so I don't think it was as bad as some might want you to think, I think a lot of it is Internet chatter and exaggeration) but I simply cannot see how they can do it, for what I understand the pool of current F/O's that have the experience to upgrade is getting thin as it is now, Is this just more Internet chatter or is this correct?
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Old 11-18-2011, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by The Dominican View Post
I just cannot see how EK can sustain that growth without hiring DEC's, I know it is not a popular view and I have heard all the horror stories about how much training they had to give to the DEC's back when they did it, yadda, yadda (although these guys are flying the line there now, so I don't think it was as bad as some might want you to think, I think a lot of it is Internet chatter and exaggeration) but I simply cannot see how they can do it, for what I understand the pool of current F/O's that have the experience to upgrade is getting thin as it is now, Is this just more Internet chatter or is this correct?

The current DSVP of Flight Operations does not want to hire DECs if he can help it. If they do go down that road it's only a temporary fix and it will lead to an even greater problem, namely the inability to recruit enough first officers. They've gotten away with it before, but I think it would be much more difficult to sell today. The F.O.s would be livid and many that are looking at EK as a quick(ish) upgrade would leave.

Not internet chatter and not exaggeration, there were a number of failures from the DECs that were hired previously. That then entailed extra training to get them up to speed. Some never made it so a lot of time was spent and then those people were let go. Some squeaked threw only to have some pretty major incidents on the line. That is a major risk to the business and the higher ups do not want to re-visit it.

Granted many, if not most, did okay and then became good line pilots but the percentage risk in hiring DECs is still deemed to be quite high.

The pool of F.O.s is just fine. It's the company's abitrary requirements that makes the pool of "qualified" upgrade candidates low. The first thing that will happen if there is a squeeze is for those arbitrary numbers to come down so that more F.O.s are deemed to be qualified.

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Old 11-18-2011, 06:55 AM
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:33 AM
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If by recruiting DEC's, EK will find it hard to employ F/O's is very subjective in my opinion. Last time Emirates recruited DEC's they still managed to recruit F/O's.

If a F/O joins an airline as they don't employ DEC's is, without any offence intended, dreaming. Even more applicable today where every airline is after cost cutting.

Why, may I ask, do you state that hiring DEC's entails a high percentage risk? Aren't recruitment up to the task to select the appropriate people?

Emirates route network is indeed very diverse (worldwide ops) and can be demanding. Having said that it doesn't mean its only the job for internal upgrades. Granted that they already know the procedures, routes aand have you making it 'easier' but it still doesn't mean that when their time is up for upgrade they are going to breeze through it. As a matter of fact, a high percentage are failing their upgrade.

I have flown in every continent with no problems whatsoever. Yes flying in Africa, for example, can be demanding but with good preparation and attention the flight's outcome should be safe. Then, I guess, it's up to the individual to put in some effort and don't expect to be spoon-fed all the way through training.
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:00 PM
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What are the comany's 'requirements' for an FO to upgrade? I've heard before that for the most part they do go by seniority. Is that true?
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Old 11-18-2011, 07:26 PM
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4000 hrs. at EK.
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Old 11-18-2011, 07:51 PM
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DECs destroy moral, cause conflict and friction. If EK hired DECs, they would probably get a dozen decent ones and loose many times more in potential well qualified FOs and an exodus from some in house.

This is why the majority of well established carriers do not practice this policy.

The deliveries of the 50 777 just ordered will not occur til 2015. So an FO who joins the company today with the minimum requirement of 4000 hours will be there for about 4 years. At about 900 hours per year, they should be ready.
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