True Comparison for Pay vs Quality of Life
12-12-2015, 11:00 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,729
Originally Posted by DCA A321 FO
Congrats on making Captain so fast.
12-13-2015, 04:31 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,076
Originally Posted by Chimpy
I'm blown away at how much JB guys are making. Pretty good!
Also, the pto sell back is HUGE. Ballpark, 1,000 a month for a young FO, 2000 for a relatively senior FO, 3000 for a junior captain, 4000 for a senior 320 captain.
12-13-2015, 04:33 AM
#45
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,796
True Comparison for Pay vs Quality of Life
Airline employer-WN
2) Equipment 737RJ
3) Two months of year one pay, the rest at Year 2 FO - Relative Seniority in base 85%
4) How many days you worked 150
5) How many overnights you had 90 (had some in-base Union work in Sept)
6) How many hours you blocked 700
7) Expected gross income-$112,000
2) Equipment 737RJ
3) Two months of year one pay, the rest at Year 2 FO - Relative Seniority in base 85%
4) How many days you worked 150
5) How many overnights you had 90 (had some in-base Union work in Sept)
6) How many hours you blocked 700
7) Expected gross income-$112,000
12-13-2015, 07:32 AM
#47
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Sorry, the 918 hrs is projected year end, whereas the 116.2k is as of November 30th paycheck. So 918 hrs includes the whole month of December flying and the 116.2k does not include the whole month of December pay. Dec was a 91 hr block month for 15 days of work and 16 days off. So the total block end of November is 837 hrs and total 116.2k.
Besides, I'm not sure if the comparison you are making (in terms of pay per block hour) makes sense? I could have bid a reserve schedule, maybe flown 300 hrs for the year, and then come up with an arbitrarily high "pay per block hour flown" figure based on gross earning. Theoretically if one only flies 10 hrs in a year on reserve, and grossed $100k, then I guess you could say this guy made $10,000/hr per block hour flown. But I don't see how that's really helpful in drawing a comparison.
And per Pike's own admittance, "My numbers may be slightly skewed due to one month of only 6 days working and another with only 3 days of work but here's what I have."
You really can't make the comparison between Pike and I due to varying circumstances. I didn't have any time off as unplanned absence. No sick, fatigue, FMLA, etc. It sounds like he had two months of at least some sort of leave. So yes, these numbers are skewed.
My hourly rate is $104/hr and I try and credit 90 hrs per month. If there is no soft time (vacation, training, personal days) then I end up blocking 90 for that month. If there is soft time, then my block is lower so that block + soft time still gets me around 90.
Of course, all of this is by choice. I could leave the min bid to be 70-75 hrs and get 18-19 (sometimes 20) days off per month.
Edit: numbers do not include any 401k numbers. That's separate "earnings" IMO.
Besides, I'm not sure if the comparison you are making (in terms of pay per block hour) makes sense? I could have bid a reserve schedule, maybe flown 300 hrs for the year, and then come up with an arbitrarily high "pay per block hour flown" figure based on gross earning. Theoretically if one only flies 10 hrs in a year on reserve, and grossed $100k, then I guess you could say this guy made $10,000/hr per block hour flown. But I don't see how that's really helpful in drawing a comparison.
And per Pike's own admittance, "My numbers may be slightly skewed due to one month of only 6 days working and another with only 3 days of work but here's what I have."
You really can't make the comparison between Pike and I due to varying circumstances. I didn't have any time off as unplanned absence. No sick, fatigue, FMLA, etc. It sounds like he had two months of at least some sort of leave. So yes, these numbers are skewed.
My hourly rate is $104/hr and I try and credit 90 hrs per month. If there is no soft time (vacation, training, personal days) then I end up blocking 90 for that month. If there is soft time, then my block is lower so that block + soft time still gets me around 90.
Of course, all of this is by choice. I could leave the min bid to be 70-75 hrs and get 18-19 (sometimes 20) days off per month.
Edit: numbers do not include any 401k numbers. That's separate "earnings" IMO.
This is precisely why a total compensation (including 401k MATCHING and company contributions) divided by total block hours worked is the most appropriate way to company QOL. If someone is on leave, then it doesn't affect the computed pay rate since he is neither working any block hours or earning any wages. But I see how it wouldn't be an objective comparison when you look at a line holder versus a reserve pilot. So maybe the best way to compute it is by dividing total compensation by the number of duty days actually worked.
12-13-2015, 07:42 AM
#48
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Originally Posted by PikeAV8R
Pay comparisons can be difficult sometimes especially when you start to think about pay per block hour or per day as a quality-of-life issue. Some guys bid reserve and never work but are still compensated well as a hourly rate. Other guys who work at line bidding operators such as Spirit are able to bid for conflicts. The month with 3 days worked was actually a conflict at the beginning of the month, followed by one week of vacation and training at the end of the month. I didn't work any extra, I went to my training and enjoyed my family time. The month with 6 days was a company mistake where in essence I had a blank schedule. I added one two day and was called for a juniour assignment 4 day. If you can't tell I try to enjoy my time off. I'll work extra when it benefits me but not just for the money. Each of us looks at work differently.
Pay per duty day is probably the best way to gauge QOL, especially when comparing reserve pilots versus line holders. All those things you mentioned about conflicts, training, vacation, junior assignments, etc are all products of negotiated contracts, which directly effect QOL differently at different carriers. If you can be off because of conflicts or more vacation accrual, or training contract language, etc, then you will have higher QOL. Or you can decide to pick up a trip (maybe at premium pay) on those newly found days off? All of which will increase the computed rate (total compensation divided by total duty days worked).
12-13-2015, 08:24 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Airplane
Posts: 2,385
I think pay per block hour, pay per duty day has absolutely nothing to do with QOL, all it does is compute total compensation. The QOL I enjoy is probably different than the QOL others enjoy.
This thread is a nice thread to help determine pay and compensation, has really offered nothing in terms of QOL, unless the only way you are determining QOL is by pay and amount of time between Out and In times.
This thread is a nice thread to help determine pay and compensation, has really offered nothing in terms of QOL, unless the only way you are determining QOL is by pay and amount of time between Out and In times.
12-13-2015, 08:47 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,044
Delta.
7ER F/O - 8th Year.
75-80% ATL.
Only keep track of days @ home (full 24 hour days, no commuting on these days) - 212.
Bid reserve on purpose 5 months this year.
650 block.
$190K - This is with shared rewards and projected 2015 profit sharing. Doesn't include the 2014 PS they paid in Feb. Had about $6K PD, and about $28K Delta DC contributions. So I guess total compensation is in the $224K range.
7ER F/O - 8th Year.
75-80% ATL.
Only keep track of days @ home (full 24 hour days, no commuting on these days) - 212.
Bid reserve on purpose 5 months this year.
650 block.
$190K - This is with shared rewards and projected 2015 profit sharing. Doesn't include the 2014 PS they paid in Feb. Had about $6K PD, and about $28K Delta DC contributions. So I guess total compensation is in the $224K range.
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