ridinhigh

Sound like a good idea.

Personally will be doubling my contribution to ALPA PAC. They have the ability to fight and need all the help they can get.

Having a Merchant Marine friend it is not lost on me the prospect of a flag of convenience model taking hold in our industry. We would all be screwed. Ok 2-3% might keep some sort of job here.

Also can't believe a single pilot on here would defend this scheme by NAI, but I appreciate the stalking CEOs and propaganda department type people outing themselves for the record.

Flyby1206

I definitely agree. ICAO needs to step up to the plate and lay out global standards for work rules.

NEDude

I have heard that there is. But here is the problem, NAI is already an certified as an Irish airline, so it is a bit difficult to argue that an (officially) Irish Airline, flying to and from Ireland, is doing so to avoid Irish labor laws.

Here is the other issue - the DOT has already issued AOCs to foreign airlines that use contract pilots. Air China, China Eastern, China Southern, Hainan, Sichuan, Korean Air, Asiana, Eva Air, and China Airlines are all examples of airlines that operate to and from US territory and use pilots contracted through agencies based in third countries.

So based on the letter of the law and historical precedent it would seem that denying NAI would open a big legal firestorm.

I agree with all of the arguments that are being made about the potential consequences of NAIs scheme. In fact I have seen the negative effects wrought by Norwegian's business practices up close and very personal - as in they have directly effected my family. So by no means am I a defender of the "Red Nosed Devil". But the arguments against them need to be sound arguments, not based on false assumptions and incorrect facts.

SmitteyB

This has little to do with pilot pay and EVERYTHING to do with the "FLAG OF CONVENIENCE". The airlines is Norwegian, but has an operating certificate out of Ireland. It sources it's flight crews out of Singapore. It uses whatever country's law suits them for that particular part of the business.

Did you ever wonder why cruise ship employees and cargo ship employees make so little money? There is 1 US based cruise ship and NO US based cargo ships. Why? Flag of Convenience.

This has nothing to do with what NAI pays their 787 drivers. It's about what it can do to the industry long term.

gipple

NAI is obviously avoiding oversight. Thanks to the criminals in the US government, they appear to be unstoppable. This is a dark day in airline aviation.

David Puddy

Good points. The challenge remains how to convince regulators that the interests of airline employees outweigh the benefits of lower airfares to a much, much larger group of consumers.... I don't see it happening. Plus, if NAI "legally" obtained an Irish license, I highly doubt things could be overturned.

Remember that Ireland is also the global HQ for many large aircraft lessors that provide airplanes to US carriers - they are using the same flexible legal system as NAI.

CousinEddie

When disaster strikes and the light shines on the underlying schemes, Governments go into outrage mode for a while. Then it goes right back to the pursuit of "cost effective and technically legal." Buffalo, NY, Europe or the Middle East.

Andreas Lubitz and the Global Pilot Scam Threatening Your Safety - The Daily Beast

GogglesPisano

Squash them, like Laker.

full of luv

Ironically, then NAI will go cry to the world trade court that the US airlines are unfairly selling seats at a loss to keep them from competing with their LCC scheme.

Typhoonpilot

Interesting thread to see develop. Some good thoughtful posts on both sides of the debate.

A thoughtful article here that some should consider.

I'm certainly not a big proponent of NAI. Their pay kind of sucks and they treat crews poorly so they get a thumbs down for that. That said, the anti-NAI crowd need to look at reality a little. The above linked article does a good job at some reality checking.

The emotional, "Flag of Convenience" and "we're all doomed like merchant seamen" is a little hysterical in my opinion. You can crew a boat with the hundreds of thousands of uneducated Philippino, Indonesian, Eastern European; etc workers since they are positions that require little training. Exceptions being for ship's captain and perhaps engineer. I'm just not seeing a hundred thousand qualified Philippino, Indonesian, etc qualified airline pilots who are going to steal your jobs with this "flag of convenience model". I also don't see that many being able to be trained since the cost to do so is so high.

Western Europe has too much trouble with rich English kids spending over a 100,000 Euros to get a commercial-instrument-multi then throwing another 35,000 Euros at an EASA B737 or A320 type rating so they can take a job at Ryanair and EasyJet. Asian airlines use expats or have ab-initio programs because their population just does not have all those rich kids like the UK or USA. Nor do their militaries pump out enough qualified pilots on a yearly basis to fulfill the demand from airlines.

Another article worth looking at, and perhaps a much larger threat to U.S. airline pilot jobs that at least DAL pilots might have a chance of countering, yet it doesn't even warrant a whisper here in APC: China Eastern expansion.

As usual ALPA is way off target as to what the threat is and they are mis-directing the membership's energy on battles they have little hope of winning.


Typhoonpilot