United or Delta
08-25-2016, 10:01 AM
#42
New Hire
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 1
Easy Decision!!
BoJet,
I am a 26 year Delta Captain. Without a doubt, United should be your choice. Delta Air Lines is becoming a narrow body airline. You will be a wide-body captain with United years before making it at Delta. Huge impact on your career earning and retirement.
I am a 26 year Delta Captain. Without a doubt, United should be your choice. Delta Air Lines is becoming a narrow body airline. You will be a wide-body captain with United years before making it at Delta. Huge impact on your career earning and retirement.
08-25-2016, 11:52 AM
#43
Otto
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: Turkish Pile Driver
Posts: 1,806
There are so many variables and what is true today may or may not be true in 1, 5, 10, or 25 years.
I strongly agree with the Hudson comments above. Driving to EWR from Long Island or JFK from NJ is a soul sucking experience. That alone would be a significant portion of my decision matrix.
UAL has more wide bodies, DAL has more junior captains. Retirements are similar enough to not make too big a difference. Yes, DAL has a reputation as a more stiff airline; however, the NYC base is an exception to that stereotype. I feel that right now DAL runs a bit more smoothly, but with very contentious negotiations going on who knows.
Once again as said above, pick one and don't look back -- you'll likely have a great career either way. Great position to be in, good luck and let us know what you decide!
I strongly agree with the Hudson comments above. Driving to EWR from Long Island or JFK from NJ is a soul sucking experience. That alone would be a significant portion of my decision matrix.
UAL has more wide bodies, DAL has more junior captains. Retirements are similar enough to not make too big a difference. Yes, DAL has a reputation as a more stiff airline; however, the NYC base is an exception to that stereotype. I feel that right now DAL runs a bit more smoothly, but with very contentious negotiations going on who knows.
Once again as said above, pick one and don't look back -- you'll likely have a great career either way. Great position to be in, good luck and let us know what you decide!
08-25-2016, 01:13 PM
#44
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 5
Congrats
NYC traffic is a force to be reckoned with. If EWR is a significantly easier drive, that's a big factor for United, Delta pilots can't reliably arrange schedules out of EWR and driving to JFK from PA or NJ is a huge pain, LGA a little less so. That said, my uneducated opinion is that Delta is a much better run company and offers more stability long-term. NYC is super junior for Delta, Ive been here for less than two years and upgrade next month on the 88. That airplane can be a lot of work and I'm going to be flying with brand new FOs forever. Some guys love international and some can't adjust to the back of the clock flying. I've got nothing but good things to say about the company.
Congrats and good luck.
Congrats and good luck.
08-25-2016, 06:07 PM
#46
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Pilot ;)
Posts: 91
Thanks everybody for weighing in!
Does anybody have an idea of hiring over the past 5 years at UA vs DL? All the retirements over the next 15 years sounds awesome. But I'm thinking I'll plateau at DL after that and the hires from the past few years will be there until my retirement -2/3 years. UA brought back older furloughs mostly and not as robust hiring yet.
I figure it to be around 3,000 for DL and around 1,200 for UA.
I'm leaning UA:
To earn top dollar at delta, you've got to be on the 777, which they only have 12. (747 going away) Also, the 777 is not based in NYC for DL. Vs at UA, the 777, 764, 747, 787 all make the top pay band. And they have a lot of those planes based in NY.
Thanks!
Does anybody have an idea of hiring over the past 5 years at UA vs DL? All the retirements over the next 15 years sounds awesome. But I'm thinking I'll plateau at DL after that and the hires from the past few years will be there until my retirement -2/3 years. UA brought back older furloughs mostly and not as robust hiring yet.
I figure it to be around 3,000 for DL and around 1,200 for UA.
I'm leaning UA:
To earn top dollar at delta, you've got to be on the 777, which they only have 12. (747 going away) Also, the 777 is not based in NYC for DL. Vs at UA, the 777, 764, 747, 787 all make the top pay band. And they have a lot of those planes based in NY.
Thanks!
08-25-2016, 09:52 PM
#48
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by Aquaticus
You can wear business casual to both airlines but you will be in a distinct minority at delta. You can expect a shirt and tie most days. Their training is done at headquarters with bigwigs running around and popping into training. They have completely different cultures that rears its head in the most unlikely places. From multiple jump seats and multiple sources they inspire the people who are tiring to fly with IMO. They have a lot of great people but every airline has them. Have you ever ended a 4 day and realized it was fun? The guy next to you was probably professional, easy going, and friendly. Calling ops for first class meals doesn't have to be a 10 seconds to midnight nuclear launch like some pilot types treat minor issues. Just look at the interview. A two day interview with psych eval, reflex testing, and pointless knowledge test that anyone can prepare for; all to hire the same people other airlines are selecting in an hour ordeal. The email to interview at United is 4 paragraphs and two hyperlinks and Delta's was almost 4 pages.
The culture difference is very real. Bases were more important to me but I did evaluate the culture before deciding. You may not like their fuel or 88-717 decisions but they are out earning United to the tune of 100's of millions of dollars over the past 6 years.
The culture difference is very real. Bases were more important to me but I did evaluate the culture before deciding. You may not like their fuel or 88-717 decisions but they are out earning United to the tune of 100's of millions of dollars over the past 6 years.
08-25-2016, 09:58 PM
#49
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by Levigarrett
Tie's in training? Um, no thanks.
08-26-2016, 03:48 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 134
Regarding the number of widebodies at each airline:
Because UAL has so many more widebody airplanes than Delta, especially those requiring double augmentation, approximately 20-25% of UAL pilots are holding the highest paid airplane (747,777,787, and the soon to come A350) but at Delta only about 10% of the the pilots are holding the highest paid airplane. The numbers may not be exactly right but that's the general idea. Although you will likely be in NYC your entire career, which is where DAL has a high concentration of wide bodies, this may not matter as much.
Other random thoughts:
Virtually, all of the NYC UAL flying is consolidated in EWR, although there is some 737 flying out of LGA, which is good for the people living in CT & LI.
EWR flying is great in every fleet! 737s do a mix of domestic and Caribbean. 757/767, a mix of domestic and Europe. 777 fly China, India, Israel and some Europe. The A350 will likely be coming to EWR, as well. Lots of long haul flying requiring double augmentation creates LOTS of pilot vacancies throughout the seniority list.
The EWR culture is pretty laid back. It is the most heterogeneous domicile in terms of legacy backgrounds (People Express, NY Air, CAL & UAL). The seniority integration went smoothly and most everyone gets along pretty well, i.e., professional, respectful and fun. The flying is so good and so junior that it is common to find people commuting from all around the country to the 777 in EWR.
As for driving to EWR, some people take the train from LI to EWR but I don't know how well that works during various times of day. Many people do move to PA because the cost of living is less and the drive is pretty easy.
Congratulations on your success. I would just add just one other personal key to a happy life: Stay senior in your seat for as much of your career as possible. The quality of life improvement is huge. Knowing you will always have weekends, holidays, and prime vacation times off is great for personal peace of mind and family harmony. With the current UAL contract, it actually pays to be senior, even in a lower paid airplane. This is because there are many ways to take advantage of contractual provisions to gain overtime pay if you are senior in your seat, especially if you are within quick driving distance of the airport for short time call outs.
Best regards!
Because UAL has so many more widebody airplanes than Delta, especially those requiring double augmentation, approximately 20-25% of UAL pilots are holding the highest paid airplane (747,777,787, and the soon to come A350) but at Delta only about 10% of the the pilots are holding the highest paid airplane. The numbers may not be exactly right but that's the general idea. Although you will likely be in NYC your entire career, which is where DAL has a high concentration of wide bodies, this may not matter as much.
Other random thoughts:
Virtually, all of the NYC UAL flying is consolidated in EWR, although there is some 737 flying out of LGA, which is good for the people living in CT & LI.
EWR flying is great in every fleet! 737s do a mix of domestic and Caribbean. 757/767, a mix of domestic and Europe. 777 fly China, India, Israel and some Europe. The A350 will likely be coming to EWR, as well. Lots of long haul flying requiring double augmentation creates LOTS of pilot vacancies throughout the seniority list.
The EWR culture is pretty laid back. It is the most heterogeneous domicile in terms of legacy backgrounds (People Express, NY Air, CAL & UAL). The seniority integration went smoothly and most everyone gets along pretty well, i.e., professional, respectful and fun. The flying is so good and so junior that it is common to find people commuting from all around the country to the 777 in EWR.
As for driving to EWR, some people take the train from LI to EWR but I don't know how well that works during various times of day. Many people do move to PA because the cost of living is less and the drive is pretty easy.
Congratulations on your success. I would just add just one other personal key to a happy life: Stay senior in your seat for as much of your career as possible. The quality of life improvement is huge. Knowing you will always have weekends, holidays, and prime vacation times off is great for personal peace of mind and family harmony. With the current UAL contract, it actually pays to be senior, even in a lower paid airplane. This is because there are many ways to take advantage of contractual provisions to gain overtime pay if you are senior in your seat, especially if you are within quick driving distance of the airport for short time call outs.
Best regards!
Last edited by WorldTraveler; 08-26-2016 at 04:17 AM.
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