Airline Pilot Central Forums - Deny NAI failed, given final approval by DOT

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2256222)

That's the good Norwegian, NAI is the bad one.

It says the flt crew is operated by Go2Sky and cabin crew by Norwegian shuttle

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 2255908)

Those of us in the regional business have been dealing with "race to the bottom" for years while you mainline guys have enjoyed huge raises....Sorry if we don't have sympathy for you...Maybe you should have had some concern for us.

This is like the third class passengers being glad the titanic hit the burg because all those snooty first class passengers are gonna be sorry when they drown. "They've been crapping on us for years, so forgive me if I don't feel sorry for them"

Oh wait.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEDude (Post 2256195)

Wait, what?!

The EU most certainly did go to bat for NAI, by filing for independent arbitration, as called for in the Open Skies treaty, on behalf of NAI. It was this filing for arbitration that caused the US DOT to finally relent because, in their own words, there was no legal grounds to deny the approval. The DOT knew they would lose in arbitration because NOBODY has cited which provision NAI used to violate Article 17 bis of the Open Skies Treaty. If you know which provision they used, I am sure ALPA and the US DOT would love to know because they have yet to name it.

I still want to know how anyone can argue that NAI is circumventing EU labour laws by sneakily registering in an EU country.

We've told you over and over which provision they aren't abiding by:

Quote:

The opportunities created by the Agreement are not intended to undermine labor standards or the labor-related rights and principles contained in the Parties' respective laws.

Your counter argument was that US carriers crew via the Far East too, which is a very different situation. Delta crewing out of Japan (a country with 1st world labor laws and a country to which they fly a huge number of flights) is a lot different that NAI trying to use Thailand as a crew base with contracts based in Singapore. Nothing about that is wrong to you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PasserOGas (Post 2256563)

Experts give it about 20 years until AI is smarter than us. Here is a great article about it. Mind bending stuff.
The Artificial Intelligence Revolution: Part 1 - Wait But Why

That article, as well as the entire blog, is some of the most thought-provoking, intelligent content I've ever read anywhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PasserOGas (Post 2256486)

I agree with you. However, getting on a plane with no pilot will be a bridge to far for some people. After the German wings incident I'd say a plane with two pilots will be required for a while. AI will be able to replace us, but I'd give it 20-30 years before we need to worry about it.

Now if I were a truck driver I'd be cr@piping my pants right now.

I don't think it will eliminate pilots at all, there will always be a human at the controls. The problem however, is in a machine learning automation environment, the complexity of being a pilot, drops below that of a fast food worker. Any major airline could replace its pilot workforce in two to three weeks with that level of automation. How much will this job pay in that situation?

After doing a little digging, it's all making sense to me. The vast majority of the vocal supporters of NAI on here are expat pilots looking to come home. Considering the amount of hiring the US Airlines have been doing, I'm not sure why you haven't been able to land a job at a US carrier, but I'm guessing no one leaves the US to go fly for Ryanaair for the awesome pay and bennies. So this thread is really about trying to find a soft landing if you're able to obtain employment at NAI in the USA.

Good luck with that. You'll want to move to base.

Then I've noticed at least one JetBlue guy defending the scheme, which is a little weird to me. But after the government awarded the Middle East contracts to "JetBlue" aka Emirates, I guess there is a different path going on over there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gettinbumped (Post 2256834)

After doing a little digging, it's all making sense to me. The vast majority of the vocal supporters of NAI on here are expat pilots looking to come home.

Sounds like the same crowd that fled the U.S. when the economy took a dive here. They were too good to hang around a fly an RJ for a couple years so they went to the ME chasing big money. In the process enabling the ME carriers to become the behemoths they are today. Now they have tired of the pit and looking to come home.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nantonaku (Post 2256604)

We've told you over and over which provision they aren't abiding by:

Your counter argument was that US carriers crew via the Far East too, which is a very different situation. Delta crewing out of Japan (a country with 1st world labor laws and a country to which they fly a huge number of flights) is a lot different that NAI trying to use Thailand as a crew base with contracts based in Singapore. Nothing about that is wrong to you?

But the contracts are not in Singapore! They are in the U.K. and in full compliance with EU law. What about that can you not understand?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEDude (Post 2256862)

But the contracts are not in Singapore! They are in the U.K. and in full compliance with EU law. What about that can you not understand?

Why are you trying to use facts to support your argument? Don't you know that's not how it works on APC :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomgoodman (Post 2256539)

Here's a classic exchange on that subject: :D

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EQNQqwFK-OM

Hilarious!

Of course, the older woman was a woman hater, you know. Just ask Madonna.