Sniper

A relatively junior pilot @ DL can hold a vastly different kind of flying than the same relative seniority pilot @ NW. A mid-level relative seniority pilot @ each carrier has a different ability to hold flying too. Only the top guys @ both carriers have the same general access to similar flying. Career expectations for each group may be different too.

You know a merger is fair when both sides feel that they got screwed - then the pain is equal. It is hard to think of many mergers where both pilot groups benefited - Morris and SWA might be the best one (even though Morris got stapled, all Morris guys got an upgrade in career stability and all now have CA seniority). That may be the lesson here - a good merger for pilots is when all benefit. That only happens if the management does their end and the company prospers. If AA grew and 9/11 didn't happen, the former TWA pilots might be AA Capts, rather than furloughed and/or bitter. Would that have then been considered a 'good' merger, even though the merger, from a pilot stand-point, would have been the same?

Xray678

for example, now matter how the lists are integrated, the DAL pilots could be fenced off (can't bid) the 747 for certain period of time. So even though there would be some DAL pilots senior enough to fly the 747, for a period of time only NWA pilots can bid it.

I would expect some fencing for this merger, for specific aircraft and probably for bases.

Nopac

Don't forget "career expectations." A pilot's projected seniority number/relative position throughout his/her career is a consideration as well. For example, a nwb DL guy, say retired mil, age 43 may be able to hold widebody FO now. Can he hold widebody captain in a dozen years? If so, he should have that same projected position in the merged list. If not, then the list should reflect that too.
There are plenty of NW pilots sitting on narrowbody aircraft now who are looking to be in the top 5 percent at the end of their careers.

slinky

Ok but I am a 36 year old new hire, last august, at DL and my projected seniorty is 02 % at the end of my career.

FliFast

Sorry to be off-thread...but respectfully, I disagree with you.

Most of the TWA pilots <on the combined seniority list> were given a seniority date of June 10th, 2001. This date is two months after the formal merger was completed. So to be accurate, the so-called, "stapled TWA" pilots were not put at the end of the seniority list on the date of the merger, April 10th, 2001, they were stapled AFTER people that hadn't even worked a day on property as of the merger date.

In effect, I am junior to pilots who were still interviewing at American Airlines and not yet hired as of the merger date 4/10/2001. Again, I respectfully submit that this was not a "good integration" and between Ed White's comments, John Darrah's comments and the fact that almost 66% of the TWA pilots lost all the their seniority plus two more months, that their bitterness is justified and even growth would not have remedied this.

If AA had grown, I doubt the upgrade ranks would have reached down to the 2001 hires, but anything is possible in this funny business.

To bring this back on thread, hopefully we will see a fair integration. Interesting times ahead.

Cheers,

FF

Big3win

A fence will limit what your seniority will hold. NWA/DELTA merge. NWA guy may have the seniority for a DAL widebody but you can't bid it until a certain date.
And a DAL guy may not ever be able to fly a NWA 747-400.
Just a few examples of a fence.

JiffyLube

What does 2007 have to do with anything? Date of acquisition is how that should roll. I am sure that all 2008 New Hires had the interview scheduled or were even hired, well before this merger announcement was made. I would guess the date that the stock transaction takes place is the key date.

E1Out

How did this happen? Who decides these things? Did the TWA pilots have a union? Did they get a say in this?

Somewhere else on this forum, it was mentioned that when AA bought TWA, the attitude was basically that the TWA guys were being "offered jobs" and that they were lucky to even get that. (Not trying to incite to riot here - just loosely paraphrasing.) Is that true?

I've never understood how this whole thing came about. I can't imagine working for a carrier, and being stapled to the bottom of someone else's list like a newhire. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, the TWA guys have every right to be bitter. That's worse than getting furloughed, if you ask me. Am I missing something?

JetFlyer06

Don't forget that NWA newhires can hold widebody positions as well....

Jack Bauer

As a First Officer or you are talking about Flight Engineer in Anchorage?