Why DAL's proposed ratio is inequitable
#412
Well, Being an August 1985 hire at NWA I have a problem with relative seniority. I have paid my dues and time at NWA to get the future retirements coming in the next five years which are substantial. DAL RS proposal puts 1500 junior DOH delta pilots ahead of me with the majority of them being younger than me which will allow them to take my 750 or so retirements from the nwa side which they would have never had. The majority of these positions are wide body positions. I would say that this is a huge windfall for the delta guys. I sit there watching delta guys fill seats that would have been open for me. If there were equal retirements on the Delta side I would have no beef. You may have retirements coming in th future, but where on your list do they come from. Any way IT is complicated and there is no simple answer. Most everyone will feel that he or she probably got screwed. I for one just hope that we can keep a good job and company going. Good luck to us all.
keenster
keenster
#413
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 847
Yes! I love NWA's growth plans! I'm junior at DAL. Can I pretty please go to a DC-9 instead of my 767? Please?
Those guys can keep their 744s (as long as they last) and NRT. Really. Keep them. Good luck guys.
Those guys can keep their 744s (as long as they last) and NRT. Really. Keep them. Good luck guys.
Last edited by Spaceman Spliff; 05-25-2008 at 06:06 PM.
#414
Spaceman,
YOU don't have a 767. You will fly whatever aircraft Delta, "The New Delta" or "Global Delta" tells you you and your seniority can fly. So, just sit back, stop trying to insult Northwest pilots, and enjoy the ride. Really. Good luck to you.
New K Now
#415
hey keenster... so let's assume that you are right and dal doesn't have any retirements that you are so convinced NWA does have. how about the growth side of the equation? yup... you are right. the DAL guys are gonna be falling all over themselves to get into YOUR dwindeling fleet while watching OURS grow... it's all so clear now... thanks
Why are you so convinced the NWA fleet is dwindling compared to DAL? Didn't you guys announce reductions, too?
#416
Can't we say the same thing about retirements? You supposedly have more than us. We supposedly have more firm orders for aircraft. How about we quit insulting EACH OTHER and collectively enjoy the ride.
#418
One could argue that even though we are parking a lot of DC-9's the lower caps in the other fleets makes it a wash. Right?
The DC-9 pilots aren't being displaced off the property. They are just going to other positions.
In effect, isn't NWA just shuffling pilots from the DC-9 to other aircraft, the same as Delta?
So far, both airlines have stopped hiring and neither airline is furloughing. It's the same 7200 at DAL & the same 5300 at NWA. (Well, maybe fewer at NWA. We've had some retirements over the past few months you know).
New K Now
The DC-9 pilots aren't being displaced off the property. They are just going to other positions.
In effect, isn't NWA just shuffling pilots from the DC-9 to other aircraft, the same as Delta?
So far, both airlines have stopped hiring and neither airline is furloughing. It's the same 7200 at DAL & the same 5300 at NWA. (Well, maybe fewer at NWA. We've had some retirements over the past few months you know).
New K Now
#419
hey keenster... so let's assume that you are right and dal doesn't have any retirements that you are so convinced NWA does have. how about the growth side of the equation? yup... you are right. the DAL guys are gonna be falling all over themselves to get into YOUR dwindeling fleet while watching OURS grow... it's all so clear now... thanks
The reason we're so convinced that we'll have retirements on the NWA side has nothing to do with opinion, and everything to do with Federal law. Let's say that no NWA or DAL pilots want to retire until 65 because the new Delta is just too cool to leave. Everyone's birthday is an absolutely known quantity. Thus everyone's MANDATORY retirement date is also a known quantity. When you do the math, NWA has a much greater retirement rate for the next 5 to 10 years than does DAL. This is not my opinion, it is math and math is stubborn.
As far as DAL's growth strategy....I'll be looking forward to see how DAL management makes the business case for that. From what I see, ticket prices are going to have to go up - and a lot. That will pull a lot of people out of airline seats, and those seats (along with the employees that service them) will have to be parked. If DAL management truly thinks that this is the enviornment from which they can grow, then DAL is in very big trouble. Fortunately for the DAL employees, I think DAL management is "fibbing" when they say DAL has a growth strategy. I believe that rhetoric is strictly reserved for getting this merger through Congress, then business reality will set in.
Carl
#420
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,280
Carl, Keep in mind that Dalpa agreed to give you credit for those retirements. However they wanted that same credit to extend to when Delta has more retirements. It crushed your junior pilots.
I agree with you on the coming shrinkage however the first aircraft to go are the nines and 747-200's. Since the gains via retirements will be shared only by each individual airline should not the pain of fleet reductions be shared the same?
I agree with you on the coming shrinkage however the first aircraft to go are the nines and 747-200's. Since the gains via retirements will be shared only by each individual airline should not the pain of fleet reductions be shared the same?