What are "prevailing equities"
11-05-2008, 09:28 AM
#111
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Position: 7ERA
Posts: 1,216
Originally Posted by Eric Stratton
That still doesn't explain why there is a pay difference between the A330 and 764.
11-05-2008, 09:56 AM
#112
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
Originally Posted by Xray678
no it doesn't. The simple answer to your question is the 764 and the 330 pay what they do because it was negotiated that way and we voted yes to it. If you don't like it, vote no next time.
You can't vote on something you aren't allowed to vote on.
11-05-2008, 10:34 AM
#113
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Originally Posted by Eric Stratton
Well that certainly is the elementary school answer but I guess I was looking for more of the college level answer.
You can't vote on something you aren't allowed to vote on.
You can't vote on something you aren't allowed to vote on.
and now that I think about it, don't the 330 and 764 pay the same in the JCBA?
11-05-2008, 04:52 PM
#115
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Position: A330 capt
Posts: 236
Originally Posted by Eric Stratton
Well that certainly is the elementary school answer but I guess I was looking for more of the college level answer.
You can't vote on something you aren't allowed to vote on.
You can't vote on something you aren't allowed to vote on.
11-05-2008, 06:00 PM
#117
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by wiggy
Eric you "innocent bystander"...might I add "naive" to that description, too? The pre-merger payrates on NW's 32 A330s were only $1.50/hr more than DL's 80 767- 300s and 137 757s. ( that's 217 DL widebody/ medium narrowbody aircraft paying virtually the same, $160+ 1.5/hr., as 32 NW widebody aircraft, that is, DL had nearly 7 times...that's right!...count 'em!...SEVEN TIMES the number of aircraft that NW had in that pay range.) The pre-merger pay rates on the 21 DL 767-400s were approx. $18-20/hr. more than the 767-300/A330, about the same as the NW 747s. The 10 DL 777s of course, payed the most of all. The reckoning that is done to find a fair SLI is based entirely on:......(suspense)......What the two respective pilot groups BRING (in terms of quality jobs) to the merger!!!!! Now, that preamble over with, -to actually answer your question....those payrates on those particular aircraft were all we (DL and NW) could "get" out of management. To have set the 747 pay from the JPWA as the highest and then "rationalized" payrates on smaller aircraft based on that, -would have resulted in significant pay CUTS for the 777 and 76-400. (we all know how well that would have "worked"!) As it was, though, the 777 and 76-400 pay stayed the same, and the 747 and A330 rates were RAISED to equal (or nearly so) them. (the adage "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" comes to mind) Every single NW pilot (100%) experienced a raise in payrates from the JPWA. The overwhelming "war-cry" from NW before and during those contract negotiations was "PARITY" (ie. a "raise" up to what the DL pilots had). NW got parity, but lately has tried, very disingenuously, to convince arbitrators that their raise up to parity was actually a decline to parity. And, last May and June, all the embellished rhetoric, hand-wringing, and gnashing of teeth about the injustice of a "B" scale was actually a fiendishly clever, Machiavellian attempt by the NW MEC to secure a "worse" and "lower paying" contract! (a devilishly duplicitous endeavor in which they not only succeeded beyond their wildest dreams, but won the overwhelming support (87%) of their unsuspecting rank-and-file membership!)
Remember Shakespeare's great saying: "Brevity is the soul of wit"?
Try learning to say more with less.
Carl
11-05-2008, 06:51 PM
#118
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,868
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Wiggy,
Remember Shakespeare's great saying: "Brevity is the soul of wit"?
Try learning to say more with less.
Carl
Remember Shakespeare's great saying: "Brevity is the soul of wit"?
Try learning to say more with less.
Carl
Eric did ask for the "college level" answer.
Anyway as you very wisely said earlier - it is water under the bridge, the payrates are what they are. But since most of us are making less than 250K we will all be getting our big Obama promised taxcut.
Scoop - waiting for the "Oh yeah, about that tax cut..."
11-05-2008, 07:06 PM
#119
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
[QUOTE=Scoop;492162]
Eric,
The concessions lowered all payrates the same %.
Scoop
Scoop,
The 747 and 777 did have different pay rates prior to the concessions at UAL. This was according to what Air Inc had put out. It had the 747 at around $285 and the 777 around $265.
Eric
Originally Posted by Eric Stratton
Eric,
The concessions lowered all payrates the same %.
Scoop
The 747 and 777 did have different pay rates prior to the concessions at UAL. This was according to what Air Inc had put out. It had the 747 at around $285 and the 777 around $265.
Eric
11-05-2008, 07:35 PM
#120
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
Originally Posted by wiggy
Eric you "innocent bystander"...might I add "naive" to that description, too? The pre-merger payrates on NW's 32 A330s were only $1.50/hr more than DL's 80 767- 300s and 137 757s. ( that's 217 DL widebody/ medium narrowbody aircraft paying virtually the same, $160+ 1.5/hr., as 32 NW widebody aircraft, that is, DL had nearly 7 times...that's right!...count 'em!...SEVEN TIMES the number of aircraft that NW had in that pay range.) The pre-merger pay rates on the 21 DL 767-400s were approx. $18-20/hr. more than the 767-300/A330, about the same as the NW 747s. The 10 DL 777s of course, payed the most of all. The reckoning that is done to find a fair SLI is based entirely on:......(suspense)......What the two respective pilot groups BRING (in terms of quality jobs) to the merger!!!!! Now, that preamble over with, -to actually answer your question....those payrates on those particular aircraft were all we (DL and NW) could "get" out of management. To have set the 747 pay from the JPWA as the highest and then "rationalized" payrates on smaller aircraft based on that, -would have resulted in significant pay CUTS for the 777 and 76-400. (we all know how well that would have "worked"!) As it was, though, the 777 and 76-400 pay stayed the same, and the 747 and A330 rates were RAISED to equal (or nearly so) them. (the adage "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" comes to mind) Every single NW pilot (100%) experienced a raise in payrates from the JPWA. The overwhelming "war-cry" from NW before and during those contract negotiations was "PARITY" (ie. a "raise" up to what the DL pilots had). NW got parity, but lately has tried, very disingenuously, to convince arbitrators that their raise up to parity was actually a decline to parity. And, last May and June, all the embellished rhetoric, hand-wringing, and gnashing of teeth about the injustice of a "B" scale was actually a fiendishly clever, Machiavellian attempt by the NW MEC to secure a "worse" and "lower paying" contract! (a devilishly duplicitous endeavor in which they not only succeeded beyond their wildest dreams, but won the overwhelming support (87%) of their unsuspecting rank-and-file membership!)
I think we all know nwa got the bigger pay raise. Get over it. You both had concessionary contracts and this is a combined new one and having a larger airplane with a smaller payscale seems bizarre. Like xray678 said, they might now have the same pay.
By the way, are you trying to say that the number of airplanes you have helps determines it's pay rate?
