[quote=wiggy;499150]Wiggy,

The question still stands. What exactly did you do to get the payrates that are -in your opinion- so magnanimously being given to NWA pilots by Delta pilots. More specifically, how long have you been at Delta?

I mean to say (once again), if you've only been there are year or so, it's kind of ridiculous for you to want to claim credit and accept gratitude for something that you really had nothing to do with. The principle has nothing to do with politics or political affiliation and everything to do with respect.

For instance, in professional sports, you don't see a new player come to a championship team from the previous season, go out there and say "we" won the Super Bowl, or the World Series, or the Stanley Cup. Why? Because they have to earn the right by at least playing a one game for the team before running their mouths.

In the corporate world, you can't take credit for the companies success for the year prior if you just go there last week. You have to at least contribute something to the company and collect a pay check before being able to honestly take credit for the actions of your predecessors.

So yes, I started off my post by insinuating that unless you have been at Delta for a while, you should temper your desire to take credit for past accomplishments and squash your attempts to solicit gratitude from those who you thought benefited from them.

But then I expanded my point to include the necessity for ALL pilots and their pilot groups to be grateful to those who preceded them. I have great respect for those who came before me. I fully realize that if it were not for their actions and sacrifices that this profession would not be where it is today.

You will notice that in my post I only included events that occured within the past 10-15 years. The reasons for this are twofold; 1.) I can't take credit for any actions that NWA pilots did before I got there, and 2.) I don't know for sure who can take credit or blame for anyones gains or losses prior to then. There is nothing wrong with being a little humble and cautious when you communicate.

But, if you think that you know for certian that your pilot groups skill and knowledge is superior to others, enough to warrant gratitude from other pilot groups, maybe you need to check your ego.

If you think that when one pilot group goes in to negotiate a new agreement with their company they do it on an island with no support from the other pilot groups, maybe you are ignorant.

Finially, if you think this merger was just hatched out of thin air at the beginning of 2008 and not sometime before both companies entered bankrupcy when both pilot groups pay rates were more similar (I think NWA's was higher), maybe you are naive.

The one thing I have learned in this buisiness is that there are no absolutes. Nothing acts in a vaccum. When things go right or wrong, credit and blame can be painted with a wide brush. A true professional and leader will spread the credit and take the blame, not solicit a gratitude from others.

So, when I get a payraise I can give credit to Delta, NWA, United, American, UPS, Southwest, Fed Ex, ect. But, I also give credit to those who flew for Eastern. Should our pilots who flew for Eastern, thank you? Should our pilots who went on strike every year in the 70's thank you? It's NOT about the greatness of one pilot group. If you think so, then your bubble is about to burst.

If there is anything that you personally deserve gratitude for is it for your illustration of how not to behave and think when two pilot groups are in the process of merging. Thanks. (And, I really mean it.)

New K Now ;)

[quote=newKnow;499236]Your rantings are presumptuous, condescending, tedious, stale, and interminable. You completely ignore relevant facts, ideas, and concepts pertaining to this merger, and persist in artless, monotonous lecturing, -all thinly veiling your ultimate aim, ad hominem attack. The only real assertions I have made in the last several posts have had to do with exposing the lack of knowledge of what the term "parity" means, and to ascertain the immediate, effective and factual "cause" of the recent NW payraise. And I still say that this "cause" is NW has merged with an airline whose pilot group has superior payrates. (and has had them, on average, for over 30 years)

Wiggy,

While your 23 years at Delta are impressive, the immaturity of you mockingly accepting gratitude from Northwest pilots speaks volumes.


These are not quotes from a seasoned veteran of the airline profession, someone who is a role model for those younger pilots who follow him, someone who knows that mutual respect and uninhibited communication is an absolute necessity for safe flying, or at least they shouldn't be. Maybe that's what threw me.

So, now that we are here -- you with your 23 years at DAL and me with my 13 years at NWA -- how is it that you seem to think that your "pretentious, sarcastic and annoying" post are serving a constructive purpose? Or, do you? How is it that you think that the Northwest pilots who read a "you're welcome!" exclamation coming from a senior Delta pilot will foster any good feelings for us in entering into the New Delta Family?

I should not be in a position of "lecturing" you -my elder- on how to treat people that you will soon be working with. :D Even if it were true that you were responsible for NWA pilots payraises, it is juvenile for you to "behave" and "think" in this way. (Yes, your behavior can be observed in forums and your thoughts can be manifested in your writings.)

The last thing we need is one side or the other intermingling with the other with an air of superiority. All any of us does is fly airplanes. Nothing more and nothing less. The only reason we fly for Delta is because they hired us or bought the company we worked for. In my opinion, you didn't get us payraises any more than we got you access to "SUPER PREMIUM WIDEBODY INTERNATIONAL FLYING!" :D (This deal/merger was put together LONG before either pilot group signed off on its concessionary contract)

At any rate, it is just about time for us all to work extra hard to get along. So, why not have a few beers, think of how you dislike New K Now, then rejoice in the thought that the rest of NWA pilots are great guys/gals and are a pleasure to work with. (And just love the pay raises they just got.) :D


New K Now

I'll buy those beers.:)

See, I knew that we would eventually agree on some things.

1. We are both sarcastic condensending jerks; and

2. We both like beers.

And that you will buy them. (Just kidding. Can't help it. See point number 1)

I will buy and accept rounds of beer for and from you any time. I'm sure we would have great conversation. :)

As I said before, it's about time you and I and everyone else knock it off and have a few beers together in spirit as well as in real life. I can't wait. (No, really, I can't)

New K Now

[quote=newKnow;499236]Unless you are mangement, then all bets are off. Those guys get big bonus coin even when taking companies into chapter 11.:eek:

Scoop

So NW says that Delta pilots didn't have anything to do with getting higher pay rates for Northwest. What did Northwest pilots do to get their higher attrition rates? Why should attrition be the only thing that stays a sole possession of the merged group? Why shouldn't we keep two different contracts if you want to have two different rates of attrition? Why shouldn't NW take all of the furloughs when the 9's and freighters go away? It seems you want to share everything except your attrition. Why is that only your doing?

Dude I've watched that argument passed back in forth. The reason after 10/30/08 that parking of DC-9 and 747 freighters is irrelivant is that those airplanes are owned by DAL....they can park add aircraft at their discretion.

Red,
You are basically arguing to keep the good but spread the bad. I think this is a tough argument to sell.

Scoop

Aren't the 9's that nwa planned on parking already parked?

If Delta plans to park more 9's then that's delta's plan just like if they take 9's out of the desert.