finis72

Bar, Good post.The size of my dog in this fight is about that of a gerbil,I understand what you are saying,My only caution is to make sure we realize the NW negotiators are trying to get the best deal they can for their constituents.The average line pouges from either side are just carrying pax around trying to make a living and hoping for the best on the SLI.I'm sure there's some fancy latin phrase for let the buyer beware and that is what our MEC is doing.

Ferd149

Alright, I'll go back and re-read the transcripts (just for Denny). My impression scanning through the first time was the dalpa lawyer playing gotcha with "requests for info". But, I'll re-read it.

Also, I just did a long look at the national ALPA board. We have been convinced for a long time that there are some dalpa P2P guys on there doing instant issue reactions/counterpoints (think the election campaign blogs). I picture guys in a dark boiler room with talking points pasted to a board.

With that said, NO ONE on the national ALPA board is talking about this. I'm sure if it was an issue, one of the dalpa moles would be banging that drumb.

Trust me, no one it trying to mislead anyone. We have really great guys on the merger committee!

Ferd

Cogf16

Since I started the thread, I feel compelled to jump in. I echo the sentiments of those who are trying to give these lawyers the benefit of the doubt, but I still can't quite get over the POSSIBILITY that this was done with the intent to unfairly manipulate the process. At the very least, it makes the NWA guys look fairly unprepared. Of course the errors were in their favor!

Pineapple Guy

What about when your MEC Chairman "couldn't recall" receiving info about the possibility of furloughs? The DAL side produced the actual email!

I'm more disgusted than you are.

PG

Bucking Bar

Pineapple:

Very true.

You know a man by his actions.

We did not call anyone, any names, the actions simply speak for them.

Reroute

You might consider the very real possibility that there are no DALPA moles on the ALPA boards, or any of these boards for that matter, and that's why there are no DALPA moles banging the drums on the ALPA forum.

Ferd149

Sigh,

Ok, first of all this is all on 11/15 not 11/16. But, go look at the cross at pages 2524 to 2536. Looks like formating and the differences of how we count DRP guys vs how you carry disability guys. Also, your guy doesn't want to seem to give us credit for PERP guys.

I'm done here with this, see you boys after the 8th.

Reroute

I was fairly disgusted by that also. The DALPA committee has uncovered several "errors" made by the NALPA merger committee throughout these proceedings, all of which suspiciously benefits NWA pilots. Errors such as counting retired pilots as active when it benefits NWA pilots, active pilots as retired when it benefits NWA pilots, forgetting that they were told there would be NWA furloughs, bogus information such as claiming crews for 94 DC-9s when counting captain jobs when there are far fewer than that, putting up route maps which show routes that NWA no longer flies, producing flight plans as evidence for flights they don't do with uncharacteristic cargo and passenger loads, testifying to the range on the A320 with fuel tank configurations that are not in the NWA fleet, under counting the average number of pay hours a month Delta pilots receive in order to skew compensation numbers. Why can't they be accurate? It's not that difficult to count airframes and know who is and who isn't on your list, produce actual route maps, actual flight plans and actual data for your aircraft based on how they are actually configured. A simple thing like knowing the status of who is and who isn't on your list isn't that hard, you don't need it to be published by the company, certainly NALPA knows who is and who isn't paying dues.

I understand trying to get the best deal for your guys, it's different than trying to get a fair deal for all, but I see a disturbing trend which suggests an effort to use less than accurate information in order to gain advantage in arbitration and therefore benefit on the back of another pilot. This is a zero sum gain, any NWA pilot who benefits from bogus information presented by the NWA merger committee does so at the expense of another pilot. That's just not right.

Reroute

[quote=Ferd149;502659]Sigh,

Ok, first of all this is all on 11/15 not 11/16. But, go look at the cross at pages 2524 to 2536. Looks like formating and the differences of how we count DRP guys vs how you carry disability guys. Also, your guy doesn't want to seem to give us credit for PERP guys.

There's more to it than formating errors, there were guys being counted who retired in 2006. As for the PERP guys, it seems disingenous at best to use a PERP as the basis for determining future retirement trends. A PERP was bought off to retire and mitigate the need for furloughs. How would you react if DALPA produced data which shows that the average DAL pilot retires at 55.2 years of age and used the average age of DAL retirements from 2002-2005 as the basis for that assumption? I think you'd have a problem with it.

Bucking Bar

Here you guys go:

YouTube - Super Troopers...Shenanigans