King,

I look around every time I go to work. Don't you think we at DAL have families and lives, commitments, and problems? There were many reasons DAL pilots chose DAL over another carrier. Many of us had a choice and I chose not to apply to NWA. Not because your airline was not a good carrier, but the because the age of your fleet, the announced airframe retirements, the 787 delays, and no announced replacement for the 9's. The move would have been too risky when there were other options. Seems ironic now. I'm now off my soapbox.

Big,

I chose not to apply at Delta, so what's your point? Your whole post sounds elitist and condescending and it's getting old. We are on the same team now and no one really cares why you decided not to apply at NWA.

15 years from now you may be a Delta pilot and I might be also. Or, we could be pilots for US Airways, Continental, United, or American or any ohter airline out there. If you were applying to the airlines 10 years ago you would have begged to get on at United; 20 years ago? US Air. 30 years ago? TWA. 40 years ago? Pan Am. So you can keep your choice, because you really didn't choose anything. You and I work for Delta now and all we can do is hope they survive for the duration of our careers.

The bottom line is that you don't really know or control any of this, so as one of my NWA buds on our message board often says, "just shut up and row."

You can stay on your soapbox, just get off your high horse, because those legs are weaker than you think. ;)

New K Now

Big, you made a good choice, you now work at the same airline as me. I got hired in 87' by Western, American, Piedmont, and NWA. I got called by Delta after the Western merger canceled my class date. NWA was the strongest airline financially and bought all their airplanes with a box of cash when they flew out to Renton to pick them up. Whats your point? Are you clairvoyant? You are in year one. I'm in year 22. It's up to you and me where this Delta thing goes, and I'm going to do the best I can and be damn glad to work for my employer. If you think you are some kind of superior individual, steer clear of my cockpit, and get your attitude straight before you screw up my airline. I was in the ANG with pilots from a dozen airlines, and when we went to work, we were USAF military pilots and officers. You are in a great place to work, with the world's premier airline. We made it so. Climb on board. You aren't going to always be a new hire, and you should have the best opportunity in this business. You may get furloughed too. And have a strike, and a LBO, and another bankruptcy, and a merger and experience paycuts, loss of benefits and illness. get used to it, it's called life! When I'm farmed out living the old fart life, you'll be in the seat I kept for you, count your blessings.

Excellent post!

Chose Delta indeed. :cool:

Super, those are the kind of posts that bring me out of the woodwork. I can't stand the attitude, even on Thanksgiving. :rolleyes:

Hey, by the way....


Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!!!! :D

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!!!! Everyone play nice for a day...

I know the feeling. Happy Thanksgiving Everyone! :D

I agree. The holy than thou gets old.

Happy Thanksgiving to all of my widget-headed Cobra buddies, and my new widget-wearing buddies. :D

Carl

Thats not a problem - if the planes keep flying (think positive) then there is not negative attrition to accomodate. If they do retire - NW guys move down the "dynamic" list just as they would move up with pilot retirements. I don't agree with the term "furlough jet," I would be glad to fly a DC-9 but I would also like to see a fair list. If you guys want dynamic with the good, lets do dynamic with the bad - on both sides.
Anyway - Happy Thanksgiving all - I have a nice feast of Biscoff cookies and peanuts awaiting me. :D

Scoop

PS - I don't really understand this whole "elitism" argument either - I applied at every single airline that was hiring, and some that were not, was accepted by two and took the first company that started me - DAL.

Happy Thanksgiving, guys. Ya' know, we'll all be okay, regardless of how the SLI turns out.

On December 9th, some of us will be sitting in our 4,000 square foot houses, moaning about how we got screwed. Meanwhile, half a world away, people are living in shacks without running water, happy that their family made it long enough to see another day.

We work in an ever changing industry. We fear the unknown. Therefore we vent our frustrations in places like this because we really have no control over the outcome and don't know where it will lead us. We will merge, and will hopefully get along. We should not ever let this get to the USAir/AWA debacle. Glad to hear all our crews are safe and heading home. Happy Thanksgiving.

I'm with you Big, I hope you have a terrific career and recoup many of the losses we've experienced. We have two great groups of pilots that are now one. We'll all get past the SLI and have an informed pilot group that can work selflessly in the cockpit and negotiate ruthlessly and professionally to share the gains at this Delta Airlines that our collective sacrifices have positioned to succeed. Happy Thanksgiving, and feel free to vent, just remember that we are all in this together.

OK Scoop. I can definitely see your point. Well, I hope it works out for us all. I hope you enjoyed your feast! :D

Happy Thanksgiving to ALL! I'm thankful for all my fellow airline Brothers and Sisters safety.

Agreed Bigflya! Great Post. I hope you and your family have Safe and Happy Holidays. :D

How bout the over expansion in Europe furloughs?

You keep repeating this, and it has no basis in fact.

Frequencies to Europe in certain markets are decreasing. Certain destinations may be ended, but new markets have been announced. There is a significant increase in Africa and South America flying. Look at the last earnings and route announcement for a source.

Yet the DC9's keep getting parked. Please provide a source for your assertion that more than are being parked are coming back out of the desert. That would be great news!

How can you accuse anyone of this Slowplay? That describes nearly every one of your posts.

Pot...meet kettle.

Carl

PS: I'm done posting on this thread as it's title is yet another example of repeating things that have no basis in fact.

Europe continues to do very well. Yields are down but still well above domestic yields. The flights are running very full. There are no plans for service reductions in Europe overall and the time will see a large increase in June. NYC alone will see 4 all new Europe markets in the month of June and a second TLV flight in addition to lots of Africa. Some markets may see fewer flights per week but other then that things look excellent in Europe and the increase in block hours should mean spring hiring. There would have been additional Europe flying if Delta had been able to get some of the gates in terminal 4 at JFK but so far that has not happened.

Please provide examples. I've sourced mine, how about you source yours...:rolleyes:

Ahh, the great Carl Spackler, taking another shot and running. The gopher lives another day!:D

I too am tired of the back and forth. The truth of the matter is that all of us on here are just pilots and no matter who your "source" is, they could just be blowing smoke you know where.

Point #1: WE KNOW NOTHING. Point #2: WE CONTROL NOTHING.

For anyone on this board to assert something as factual because they have good sources is meaningless. Those sources could be lying to you or more likely those sources really don't know. It's not like the people running any of the airlines have been performing at a rocket scientist caliber anyway.

So give it a rest. You stop saying the DC-9's are getting parked and we will stop saying that the Europe routes are over-expanded. I mean really, don't you see how silly this all is? See points #1 and #2 above, sit back relax and enjoy the ride and save your energy for when it comes time for us to get scope, pay, retirements, work rules, insurance coverage, rest periods, crew meals, layover hotels, and travel benefits back to where they should be.

Those are things you know something about and those are things you can actually do something about when the time is right. (ie. picket and strike) Unless you have some non-airline pilot related specality, anything else you comment on that is non airline pilot related, is uninformed and speculation. What routes a compan flies and what aircraft they use is not pilot related.

So, are the 9's going away? They could. Is Europe overexpanded. It may be. But, do I or any of you know for sure and/or could we do anything about it one way or the other? Absolutely not.

At the very least, our comments should be prefaced with a qualifier of speculation and/or hearsay and our answers to any non-pilot related questions should be, "I don't know. I just fly 'em."

From here on out, that's what my answer will be. :rolleyes:

New K Now

Dude,
Name one thread that has to do with Dl/NW that doesn't meet this definition!

Another, "Ding Ding Ding!!" Post from NewKnow :D

Agree 100%

[quote=newKnow;507436]I too am tired of the back and forth. The truth of the matter is that all of us on here are just pilots and no matter who your "source" is, they could just be blowing smoke you know where.

New K, I agree but on a different level.I hear the suits talk on a regular basis and my opinion is the current situation is so fluid and dynamic that they really are not sure.What's true today might change tomorrow.What I believe to be true is that all our suits are universally convinced we are stronger now than before DCC.How big the reductions are going to be will be dictated by the economy and advanced bookings,not by the opinions on APC.
Who knows our future ? I am glad you Redtails are with us because I too believe it will better our chances of weathering this storm.

Super and Finis,

The 8th can't come soon enough for me. ;)

P.S. I am glad we are "together" also. But I don't think we will actually be "together" until after the 8th. :rolleyes:

To paraphrase Oddball from Kellys Heroes: "Whats with the negative waves Capn?"

Try thinking positive every once in while.

Scoop

That is rich coming from you scoopy

Capn,
So you still insist on name calling (its Scoop not Scoopy) that would be pretty impressive in 2nd grade. We can all disagree but you seem to just make stuff up. Carl, Super, New and almost every other NW Pilot will argue their point with passsion but they still keep it professional, I cannot say that for you. But since you thought that was rich here is another one for you. I'm sure Carl will also appreciate it.

Its easy to grin
when your ship has come in
and you have the market beat.
But the man who is worthwhile
is the man who can smile:)
when his shorts are too tight
in the seat.

Or you can just keep making stuff up.

Scoop

What I'm Tired Of
 

When is the infusion of the RJ going to stop????? I am really tired of seeing main line flying going to the RJ. We are flying full DC-9s around and they are being down sized to RJs and hauling half the load or less where are the other 50-75 people going. And what is this RJ stuff between hubs????? Where is the scope???? What is the Delta scope on RJ flying. This should be issue number one with the new DAL pilot group. Sure would like to see main line new hires flying these airplanes even if the are CRJs or 170-195s. Something to think about other than all the other bloveating and spin on here.

Keenster, Your comments are exactly why I voted no on the joint contract. Many other Delta pilots also choose to vote no for the above reasons despite heavy pressure to vote yes. NWA pilots also voted on the contract. We missed our chance to try and fix this among other issues. It is no longer a Delta pilot issue. The contract was joint and we all voted and will live under it for far to long.

So give it a rest. You stop saying the DC-9's are getting parked and we will stop saying that the Europe routes are over-expanded. I mean really, don't you see how silly this all is? See points #1 and #2 above, sit back relax and enjoy the ride and save your energy for when it comes time for us to get scope, pay, retirements, work rules, insurance coverage, rest periods, crew meals, layover hotels, and travel benefits back to where they should be.

So, are the 9's going away? They could. Is Europe overexpanded. It may be.


All you can do is go with the facts. Overexpanded Europe is making lots of money and another large expansion has been announced for the Spring and they are selling tickets on the flights as we speak. I suspect there is at least one DC-9 in a hanger being prepped to go to the desert at this moment. Last April when post were made relative to public information on the DC-9 retirements lots of NWA pilots jumped on this forum saying its not going to happen. Well now its the end of the year and the retirements went as planned. Not one NWA pilot posted the letter sent from management in April detailing the DC-9 retirement plans for the year or ever referenced it. No one wants to see a single aircraft leave the combined fleet however as I have often posted reality is hard to change.
What every pilot should be doing is talking with his MEC reps about a plan to attempt to not only preserve this flying for the mainline but retake back the lost flying.

In the last 5 years Delta saw over 80 737-200's and 300's retired. All were replaced with RJ's. By Dec NWA will have seen over 100 DC-9's retired. All were replaced with RJ's. If you are a junior pilot this is the fight that matters. Talk to your reps. Tell them you want and need a coordinated effort to reclaim this flying!!!!!!

Exactly! The story that NWA is bringing furloughs is tired and lame. If they do happen, which I hope they don't, it was a combo of activities from both sides and not one event.

Absolutely!

Fun,

I'm with you. Job protection and QOL issues are something that definately needs to be looked at next contract. Pay is nice but the bennies is what makes this job truly a pleasure. Nice post

What is sad has been the selling off of narrow body positions with the justification of them being made up with more, better QOL WB positions.
The fact is due to the augment staffing models one ends up with a lot of W/B F/O's replacing NB Captain slots. The votes that help push this often come from lifer F/O's Reps who have never flown in the left seat and do not truly appreciate what is being given away.

It's one thing if want wants to spend ones career as an F/O, it's another if there is no choice.....