AirBear

Over on the Atlas section a guy got hired into the 767 with just Part 135 Single Engine Turbine time. Prior to that just CFI and a small amount of light twin time.

PossibleDeviation

UPS has 1,000 TPIC min and FedEx requires 500 TPIC.

the same low time candidates that are getting picked up at the major pax carriers aren’t even able to apply.

60av8tor

Yes, aware of this - now cue everyone saying this is changing rapidly, that isn’t really required, I know a guy who knows a guy… I responded to someone saying, essentially, get 500 hours and take your pick of airlines to call home. I said, that even now, that’s not quite accurate. I then specified I was talking about DL, UA, AA. Then I get the latest comment - about cargo snatching no experience guys up. Again, Atlas is a world apart from UPS/FedEx. Yes, Frontier has taken CFIs, they took a shlt-ton of FOs from my regional before Covid, before the latest hiring boom. Yes, some 25yo with no PIC get the call from legacies. All I was saying is that, even now, it’s not the norm - AT LEGACIES: AA, DL, UA, UPS, FedEx. That’s it, nothing more, end of story. Nothing about Atlas, Breeze, Sunny, Frontier, etc.

I’m also not saying one is better than the other. As with everything in this industry individual circumstances drive what makes a good final resting place. While it makes sense for one to wait for a legacy, another may have a better career at an LCC. All of it could end tomorrow; todays hot ticket is tomorrow’s turd. I’ve always been a fan of expectation management. I believe it keeps you grounded. As a former rotor pilot, but not Rotor Transition Program, I used to talk to transition program guys with similar attitudes - 500 hours at my regional (which equals 750 airplane TT) and DL will be calling. Get all your ducks in a row for that to happen, sure, but count on that and expect that? - certainly not. As with everything supply vs demand. Frontier recently took a rotor-pure guy. But that just isn’t the norm, not even now.

ZeroTT

Lotta ways you can “measure” the hiring market.

norms are one of them and you can make a case for norms changing meaningfully. LCA used to be a norm. It’s arguably not any more

but the ends of the spectrum are remarkable as well. Not because they’re the norm but because they show possibilities that may not have existed before. Regional FO > legacy, 1500>ulcc, no twin turbine >atlas are all remarkable that they happen AT ALL. It is quite reasonable to ask where it will progress to in 6-12 months. Those could certainly be the norm then.

And yeah nobody wants to see butthurt cfi’s complaining that they only got an offer from frontier and they wanted spirit… but people aren’t wrong that the hiring environment is fundamentally different than it has been in recent memory

60av8tor

Totally agree - just like 12 months ago some were wondering when they'll have their job back

Totally agree - just like wet commercials used to sit right seat; fundamentally different

Ever feel like you're beating your head against a wall in a circular discussion. You're right, every thing you say is right, and everything you say has nothing to do with my point above - that's all I was saying. I'm talking now. Not a month from now, not last month, not next year. Right now - IN MY OPINION - it is doing young guys a disservice to say - take any regional you can to fly right away because 6 months on the line, you'll have your pick of interviews due to hearing examples of below. That's it, nothing more...

Avgeek7248

If you’re arguing that in 6-12 months it’ll be different you gotta see both sides. Yes it could be hiring guys after 500 hours of 121 time. That’s highly unlikely. There’s still a ton of high time high experienced folks out there. It could also bog down congress throws some BS extension to the age 65 rule and kicks the rock down the road again. Something could set the industry back again. Do you really want to pick a place you can go for 6 months but wouldn’t want to stay at for an extended period of time? Pros and Cons that’s all it is. I’m 3.2k TT and haven’t heard anything back from anyone. Upgrade training on the 175 currently scheduled coming up. Who knows how long that’ll take. No one can deny the industry as a whole is heading in a good direction for pilots. Just understand that as quickly as it’s improved it can turn nasty. Plan accordingly.

iceman21

I was just told by a legacy captain for 35 years to apply now.... at 2700TT and 700 121.

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Avgeek7248

They’re always saying to apply. Of course you should apply. You never know when you’ll get lucky and get the call way early. That being said just because he said apply doesn’t mean they’re gonna interview you. 2700TT/700 121 is nothing in the grand scheme of applicants. Neither is 3200TT/1700 121 and two type ratings no training or checkride failures and 23 years old. I just don’t want guys and gals to think they’re gonna get hired with practically no experience.

ZeroTT

presumably market conditions in 6 months are quite pertinent when advising young guys how to prepare for 6 months from now.

the underlying phenomenon here is that majors are hiring faster than their preferred qualifications can be replaced. They hired most of the LCA’s, then they hired most of the high time captains, now they’re working on cusp-of-upgrade FO’s. This is a linear process that can be extrapolated

60av8tor

JFC dude - Uncle…. I give up. I’m not trying to prove you wrong. Not sure what you’re looking for. I’m stating my opinion just like Mr. 500 hours and I’m at DL stated his.