My thoughts go out to the Mesa Employees.

Let us all hope, that every single block hour and CRJ900 gets absorbed into mainline flying.

Let's hope this doesn't get pushed around to other regionals..giving all us furloughed pilots our crappy jobs back.

Well in that case I hope some or all the -900s go to US mainline. Wishful thinking I know. :D

Back to reality now, how many -900s are in violation of the USAPA contract?

What about the UA side of things?

Don't forget Skywest Inc. They have been watching this flying for over a year and have PLENTY of money. CLT 900s to ASA, PHX 900s to Skywest

I think that is exactly what he is saying.

USAPA has already made a case against there being too many big-little jets. Any change to the current operation would be, in essence, removing the Mesa 900s even if they were immediately reinstating them with the new carrier. USAPA would have more traction, I think, in their attempt to stop that.

XJT can barely pay their own bills, if anyone is Skywest coming in.


Why would they split them up, Skywest operates the 900 cheaper than ASA?

You're rightbut I meant in the actual Airways system. Parkers been pretty vocal about reducing the total number of Airways regionals but then, you just never know.

AWE/USA is not going to fly -900's. Period. That's just some wet dreams for guys that get paid $20 an hour to fly them.

I don't know what the USAPA contract says. but if it's a 70 or 76 seat limit, that's easy to accomplish with -900's.

Yea, I would hope the CRJ 900's go to mainline. But I highly doubt they even act on them. Airways already has PDT PSA AWAC and Republic that can pick up all the flying out of both CLT and PHX. Would hope they give some of the flying to mainline to bring back all the furloughed pilots there.

To all the MESA employees I wish you the best of luck. This is not a time for people to badger them this is going to be hard times for them a lot of people with families will be losing there jobs, in an economic time that is very difficult.
I wish you the best of luck.

Nothing will change in regards to current contracts with delta, united, and usairways. Under reorganization plan they can cherri pick contracts for ch11. As I understand only certain aircraft leases are in ch11 filing.

No, he did.

"Thank you for your on-going hard work and support. You have our commitment that we will provide updates to you as we move through this process."

He's committed to updating the pilots of the new terms as they progress!


GET OUT NOW boys and girls.

My heart goes out to all the MAG employees. MAG has a tough mountain to climb. MAG's biggest hurdle to overcome is DIP financing. Without it, there's no getting out of BK. Since MAG is regualted by the SEC; they come under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Bankruptcy Court SOuthern District of New York. They presided over USAir, NWA, Mesaba, Delta, and United bankruptcies. Good luck guys. It's a long tough battle. I'd have something lined up just incase!:(

Having gone through Ch.11, all contracts and aircraft leases come under perview fo the court. There's no picking and choosing. It's up to the mainline partner if they want to sever their contracts with MAG. Yes; the creditors loose out, but they have the upper hand during this process.

Actually the historical precedent has been for the court to adjust labor contracts to "industry neutral"...so they might not do too badly since they are already below average. They might even get some work rules out of the deal. Maybe.

True, this should make it even easier for DAL to dump them, possibly effective immediately. Don't include those airframes in your seniority plans.

Yeah, what an amazingly upbeat letter from that dude! If I don't know better than to believe a word he says, I'd almost think everything was going to be alright.

Why, no difference mainline or regional. Work on your contract and bring pay up to par. Even at mainline pay scales will be ====== to current.

No. Bankruptcy allows you to get out of YOUR obligations...it does not force your customers to keep employing you.

Otherwise every BK airline would simply require each and every pax who bought tickets last year to buy the same number this year...alleviating pesky economic downturns.

I hope it really is that simple. I can't say enough about how bad I feel for their pilots. But Mesa needs to stop existing.

please please please please SkyWest buy us! please!

This was posted on another thread. It provides some insight about the contracts Mesa has with other airlines.




All of the facts above can be seen on the Mesa Airlines website under, financial information.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....-reportsAnnual

1. Direct quote from the 2008 annual report:

Airways:
"The code-share agreement is subject to termination prior to that date in various circumstances including: If either US Airways or we become insolvent, file for bankruptcy or fail to pay our debts as they become due, the non-defaulting party may terminate the agreement;"

UA:
The code-share agreement is subject to termination prior to these dates under various circumstances including: If either United or we become insolvent, file bankruptcy or fail to pay debts when due, the non-defaulting party may terminate the agreement;"

DL:
The agreements may be subject to early termination under various circumstances including: If either Delta or we file for bankruptcy, reorganization or similar action or if either Delta or we make an assignment for the benefit of creditors;"

. . . Wait, I should be looking for other jobs? I thought we were getting 737's.
:D

They won't buy the existing Mesa... but will buy the bits and pieces out of BK. In other words, whatever seniority / contract, etc, won't carryover to SkW.

But, you might get an interview. I'm told they're hiring. Best of luck to all.

They can cherry pick contracts with their vendors.

Customer contracts are not protected, they simply stand on their own merits. Theoretically, they could continue as though nothing happened...except all regional feed contracts have a provision to allow instant termination in the event of BK, due to liability concerns. If johny is broke and can't afford to maintain his airplanes, mainline would be raped in court in the event of an accident.

The customers would have to reaffirm their contracts, if in fact they wanted to continue them.

DAL, for instance, would have to specifically tell the court that they wish to continue their contract with Mesa. Sure, that's gunna happen.:rolleyes:

If i remeber right UA did some picking. As long as Mesa keeps their new bids lower than xjet, skywest, gojet…….UA, UsAirways will keep them. Delta could offer 40m or so for them to go away……..

Delta doesn't have to offer them anything but a foot in the behind.

Do you honestly believe that?

USairways response as of now....

Mesa Files for Ch. 11 Protection to Reorganize January 5, 2010 - This morning one of our regional airline partners, Mesa, filed for bankruptcy protection. For US Airways’ customers, Mesa has committed they will continue to operate their full schedule. US Airways customers should not see any disruption to their travel plans as a result of Mesa’s reorganization.
Mesa currently operates 53 CRJ900, CRJ200 and Dash 8-200 aircraft for US Airways and complements larger jet service in approximately 70 markets.

We will keep employees and customers updated on any changes to US Airways’ service throughout Mesa’s reorganization.

All we here about is that we cost too much. I have no doubt that AWAC could afford to buy the ships, but I highly doubt we could competitively afford to operate them at the profit our owners want. Compared with the likes of Republic, GoJet, and others, our payscale for a "big" airplane would be too high and our union UNWILLING to bend.

One other thing about the pilot contract...

Assume that OJ will try to get out of the seniority provisions (and training costs) of a bump-and-flush bid. He will furlough ALL ERJ pilots regardless of seniority and then try to get the court to OK it after the fact.

He's tried it before IIRC, but he might get away with it in BK.

Yes, do you think they can afford to pay more?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 690265)

Since a BK filing would almost certainly allow all major partners to dump mesa immediately, he would lose DL for sure

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 738220)

True, this should make it even easier for DAL to dump them, possibly effective immediately. Don't include those airframes in your seniority plans.

---

You have been pounding this same statement in APC'ers heads for the last two years without solid evidence that such a condition exists in a contract between a mainline carrier and a regional carrier, specifically for Mesa.

If you are correct in your previous statements, Delta will be dropping Mesa completely in the next few weeks. If you are incorrect, it just goes to show that a majority of your posts are based on personal opinions/outdated information (and hatred) rather than facts, especially when it comes to bashing Mesa.

Don’t get me wrong, you’re a good writer, but you put a lot more emotion into it than facts.

They don't have to pay them anything. They are in CH 11 and Delta can cancel them. I'm honestly surprised Mesa is trying to restructure. It seems pointless. United has already shown they don't want mesa lift. I don't think it's based on cost alone for them. Us Air has shown their intention to slowly downsize the mesa fleet, this is a perfect oppurtunity to restructure deal and likely to obtain some cash from a regional willing to give a loan for flying. These things are no secret. To think that Mesa will receive anything other then a cancellation notice is irrational.

I don't think he can do anything at this point. The court would have to agree to it, which they may, since any contract in BK is just about worthless.

A) It's been released in the past SEC filings when new contracts were awarded.

B) It's on Mesa's own website right now.

If you want EVIDENCE, please check out the annual report on the Mesa website:

Airways:
"The code-share agreement is subject to termination prior to that date in various circumstances including: If either US Airways or we become insolvent, file for bankruptcy or fail to pay our debts as they become due, the non-defaulting party may terminate the agreement;"

UA:
The code-share agreement is subject to termination prior to these dates under various circumstances including: If either United or we become insolvent, file bankruptcy or fail to pay debts when due, the non-defaulting party may terminate the agreement;"

DL:
The agreements may be subject to early termination under various circumstances including: If either Delta or we file for bankruptcy, reorganization or similar action or if either Delta or we make an assignment for the benefit of creditors;"

I'm curious how they got the Go! operation exempted from the filing. I know that complex bankruptcies tend to go to the Southern District of NY because they are pretty well schooled in very complex bankruptcies which are have subtle aspects/details which might be missed elsewhere.

I'm also surprised that we have not heard from the MEC "leadership" yet. No, actually I'm not.

They didn't (and can't), no matter what spewage JO barfs up. If it's owed / contracted / leased by Mesa, it's under the control of the court.

Well I don't think they really have. The papers filed also say they are seeking to lock the majors into keeping their contracted flying. The filing is basically an initial proposal but the judge will have to look at the case and figure out what to do.

Chances are the judge will rule against the separation of Go! and will then decide whether a restructuring is even possible. From there the judge will begin working with the creditors and Mesa management to come up with a plan to return Mesa to profitability or it will move to Ch. 7 and the plan will be liquidation (most likely).

I guess after UA furloughs, ASA furloughs and the hiring pool in that order.

Thats like apple to oranges. In those circumstances, the regionals were the creditors, since UA paid them. MAG doesn't pay it's mainline partners for pretty much anything that isn't reimbursed under those contracts. Delta did offer to pay to cancel the ERJ contract; but JO gave them the finger, so they just went ahead and canceled it and said see you in court! Maybe JO might be a little more receptive to a buyout vs getting dumped outright.