Are you talking about Republics being used against the Midwest pilots fighting for a better contract?

Again, good luck to all the Mesa employees.

Republic and GoJets are in the same league. Frontier and Midwest are in a different league. Bad analogy on your part.

Well best of luck to you guys. I hope you can come out of this with either a better mesa or a better job...for the vast majority of the pilots I am 100% confident that you would be better off elsewhere. If you don't believe me, try it and come back in 2-3 years and tell me what you think.

It's a moot point now, but I think the gojet decision is worse. You could end up at mesa by being uninformed, bad judgement, or having too many blackmarks on your record (not employable anywhere else). Also pre-9/11 nobody planned to stay at mesa for long...Those traits are not in the same league with alter-egotism.

Tired of your ignorance. Congrats on being the first person to the ignore list.

That's because some feel that unless you work somewhere industry-leading, the rest are all substandard in some way. I think every regional at some point has done its time at the bottom. I don't really care whether people go to SkyWest, Mesa, GoJet, Horizon, Republic, a bottom feeder, a top feeder, or somewhere in between. Hopefully they will help make it a better place wherever they end up. Mesa might not be the best, but I don't think they deserve to lose their jobs because of it. Like everywhere else, a lot of good people there.

Well Said!

winglet

How do you figure?

Mesa Air Group Receives Nasdaq Staff Delisting Notice
PHOENIX, Jan 06, 2010 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- On January 5, 2010, Mesa Air Group, Inc. (the "Company") (Nasdaq: MESA) received a letter from The Nasdaq Stock Market (the "Exchange") indicating the Staff's determination that the Company's securities will be delisted from the Exchange. This decision was reached by Nasdaq under Listing Rules 5101, 5110, 5110(b) and IM-5101-1 in view of the January 5, 2010 announcement by the Company of a voluntary filing by the Company for relief under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code. The Company does not intend to take any further action to appeal the Exchange's decision. Accordingly, trading of the Company's common stock will be suspended at the opening of business on January 14, 2010, and a Form 25-NSE will be filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission ("SEC") which will remove the Company's common stock from listing and registration on the Exchange.
The Company's common stock will not be immediately eligible to trade on the OTC Bulletin Board or in the "Pink Sheets." The Company's common stock may become eligible if a market maker makes application to register in and quote such securities in accordance with SEC Rule 15c2-11 (a "Form 211"), and such application is cleared. Only a market maker, not the Company, may file a Form 211.

Mesa currently operates 130 aircraft with approximately 700 daily system departures to 127 cities, 41 states, Canada, and Mexico. Mesa operates as Delta Connection, US Airways Express and United Express under contractual agreements with Delta Air Lines, US Airways and United Airlines, respectively, and independently as Mesa Airlines and go! Mokulele. This operation links Honolulu to the neighbor island airports of Hilo, Kahului, Kona and Lihue. The Company, founded by Larry and Janie Risley in New Mexico in 1982, has approximately 3,500 employees.

Safe Harbor Statement under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995:

Statements contained in this press release that are not historical facts may be forward-looking statements as that term is defined in the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties that could result in actual results differing materially from expected results and represent the Company's expectations and beliefs concerning future events based on information available to the Company as of the date of this press release. The Company undertakes no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements to reflect events or circumstances that may arise after the date of this press release. Additional information regarding risk factors that may affect future performance at the Company are contained in the Company's SEC filing, including without limitation the Company's Form 10-K for its fiscal year ended September 30, 2008.

Nice Find SKY!!!

that makes sense when you are desperate for a job and/or you cant get hired anywhere else. Once your in the regional industry for a couple of years you start realizing how self destructive we have become as a profession. We label it ok to go work for airlines that make it hard to pay a mortgage or have a decent retirement account because we have been taught this "me, me, me" non-sense. It is true that no one will look out for you and the industry is extremely competitive but there needs to be a wakeup call. As soon as a company starts treating it employees halfway decent to where people can make a living... they are undercut by a yonger, cheaper, willing to accept peanuts to fly pilot group that is just happy to have a job.

Working for an under cutter is great until you yourself find yourself being undercut 7 yrs from now and having to start your career all over again.

I got him there too Duck.

Now that was well said! To the other guy who blames Mesa employees, you are so far off base, there is no regional out there that doesn't have any blame for the current state of the industry. FWIW, my time there was absolutely awesome working with some great people who are lifelong friends now. The company sucks, but they all have their problems. We as a group need to stop putting each other down and attacking each other, that's exactly what management wants...

Mondo Cane
 

I saw a movie a while back, called Mondo Cane.

There was a part in it when the natives of New Guinea, put about 12 pigs in a pit and proceeded to beat them to death prior to cooking them in the same pit.

While the pigs were being beaten to death with clubs by their human herders, I observed something that stuck to my mind.

The pigs started violently biting the other pigs near them, as if they thought the other pigs somehow were the blame to their demise.

Almost an intelligent post.

But really its not the same thing anyhow. If you want to stick with the pig analogy, then one of those pigs in the pit wee wee'd in a native's cheerios. The other pigs in the pit caught the wraith of the natives.

Ah! The similarity between regional airline pilots and Skinner Rats! The cockpit is just another type of Operant Conditioning Chamber and management is controlling the experiment.

winglet

b-i-n-g-o, winner

No matter what anyone wants to tell themself, going to work for a company is a vote YES for their CURRENT contract and pay. This "I want to make it a better place" is B.S. people use to pat themselves on the back when they're being paid less than everyone else. Voting for a better contract which is STILL worse than everyone else in the industry doesn't make you a crusader for "improving pilot pay" or whatever crap you're telling yourself.

Almost an intelligent post. Then you revealed you don't know the difference between a forceful, often vindictive anger and a ghost.:D

Get back down to earth. Not everyone will work for the best airline and have the best contracts, simply because it's impossible. Just because some of us are unfortunate enough to be in a position where we are at the "lower" tier airlines does not mean we are all bottom feeders. Not that it matters at the regional level anyways because QOL and what the particular regional offers to us is all relative.

Like you?? What about the Continental 737s you're replacing?

You want to have the cake and eat it too.

How about same pay and contract for all

Who cares. I don't control what happened 5 years ago and it has nothing to do with us right now. If you're worried about hurt feelings then I have no idea what to tell you. I'm pretty sure you might have hurt the feelings of Midwest guys and so will the recalls that are "willingly and knowingly" going back and the future guys that "willingly and knowingly" apply at RAH. Move on.

Well that depends. Right now more or less all regionals have the same pay and mostly the same contracts, not all. Doesn't mean that's the way it should be. We all have to make up our minds whether there even is a "regional" sector anymore. We can't have regional airlines with major style work rules because there would be no movement. Plus it would not be possible because of the nature of the cutthroat competitiveness of this industry. Regionals are tripping over themselves to undercut one another.

in my mind this statement is a HUGE factor:

"In its bankruptcy filing in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York, Mesa listed $975.5 million in assets and $868.6 million in debts. Mesa and 10 affiliates were included in the petition."


Even if Mesa gets out of some of its debt, it still owns a ton, plus with Delta and United dropping Mesa's services WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GET THEIR INCOME FROM (besides USAIRWAYS). Mesa has TOO MANY PROBLEMS with few if any options to save it. Even IF, they ever emerge from Chp 11, they have to their reputation to deal with. What major airline would want to have them as a partner when they have shown they are not dependable. Besides Chp 11 could turn QUICKLY into Chp 7 once the investors and creditors look at Mesa's books closer.

This could be a quick fall for Mesa.... I do feel sorry for all those employed at Mesa, but at the same time, this economy in many ways might help the industry by killing the weaker companies and building up the stronger ones that know how to do business and have a quality product.

But as much as I hate saying it but those that were trying to go for the quick hire and upgrade when the hiring boom was going on can really only blame themselves for joining on with a company that was known to have "shady" business practices. You wouldn't deposit or invest you money you earned from work into a bank or (insert another example) that was known to "fudge" numbers or have bad practices. Why would you do the same with your job and career? Those that were lucky to "use" mesa for the flight time and experience to go another company and better themselves and their career goals, but it was a risk and it worked for them before the music stopped.

You are mistaken on so many levels. Places like SKW, XJT and AWAC (just to name a few) all have better work rules than their major counterparts in many areas. Examples

UA's narrowbody work rules are pretty atrocious so SKW has them beat in almost every area, block or better, scheduling flexibility, etc

XJT's reserve policy, among other things is much better than CAL's

AWAC has an all around awesome contract which rivals most majors in terms of rigs, 401K, and pay considering the size airplane AND its concessionary. You honestly can't see the difference between AWAC's contract and your current employer?

Absolutely no argument here, I know you're right on this. At this point, I would enthusiastically embrace a staple-job to the bottom of SkyWest's seniority list. Highly unlikely, but I'd take it without hesitation.

Hey Duvie, UA workrules were restored years ago. UA has block or better, 1 for 2 duty, 1 for 4 tafb, and line guarantee. Not great, but certainly better than a non union regional where you top out at $42 in the right seat.

Two years ago I was jumpseating on you guys quite frequently and the 73 FO's were griping about the disparity between their work rules and those on the larger A/C. Perhaps I was misunderstanding their grievances.

For the record, given Tilton's run and the furlough yo-yoing, I'd still much rather take my chances at any of the majors then stay at SkyWest. I didn't mean any disrespect to your pilot group, I was just pointing out that many regionals have good work rules By the way, we just got a 1% COLA increase so we top out at $42.21 now :-/

No sweat, the work rules were bad after bk until the side letter. I didn't mean to be an arse, just pointing out the facts.

Please stop with this GoJet vs. everyone else. This is a Mesa thread so if you want to be internet tough guys go start your own thread.

Is the Del Rio an asset or a debt? Or did JO somehow keep that separate with Go!? Humor aside, good luck folks.

I don't think you would be fortunate enough for them to even offer you that considering past practices.

Ritz Hotel Management Corp.
 

The Del Rio is owned by the Ritz Hotel Management Corp. a subsidiary of MAG. :eek:

An interesting document is the Mike Lotz declaration. It can be found under Docket #2 on the Epiq Systems Docket Search.

I started another thread for those interested in information regarding the Mesa Air Group Chapter 11 Reorganization.

If you go there please avoid thread drift and DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

winglet

If you "hate" saying it, then don't.

It seems many here want to extrapolate the relative success or failure of an airline into a statement about the skills, dedication, DNA, etc of the pilots flying for that company.

Perhaps one day, BHopper, I will be a witness to misfortune that befalls you and I will be in a position to say, "Well, you should have studied and chosen a better doctor....You should have had better brakes and tires on your car....You should have had a better fire alarm....You should have taken judo classes before going for a stroll at night in that neighborhood."

If this were to all happen.....
Will he have any real way of knowing his Dr. stinks?
Will he know his brakes were bad?
How about the quality of his fire alarm?
Will he foresee his mugging on that night?

Probably not.

Has it been well known that Mesa is a horrible place to work for a LONG, LONG time?

yup.

While Mesa probably hasn't always been atrocious to its employees, the recent past shows that anyone making a decision to go there was taking a gamble (as you do with any carrier). But the gamble goes further, you can go to Comair..and be "wholly owned" and get shafted cause Delta cuts flying. But at least the contract is OK. Same with Eagle, Skywest, blah blah blah. But Mesa, it's a known fact that the contract stunk, and still stinks. I remember the first day of my private pilot groundschool 7 years ago. My professor said "stay away from Mesa". Mesa's shortcomings in the labor relations department has been a constant in aviation for a fairly long while, and easily "researched".

It's not so much as reveling in anyone's misfortune, as it is the inevitable end, to so many terrible means.

Good luck to you all.

It's not quite that simple. I saw this coming five years ago, one of the reasons I left. There is absolutely an element of luck in picking an airline (or getting picked as the case may be) but in this case there have been signs for years.

I think about 700-800 pilots (largely FO's) left MAG in 2007...that many people don't all get lucky at the same time. For those who lined up down 44th Av to apply for those vacated jobs, you must have known SOMETHING was up...you'd have to be pretty oblivious not to.

Some folks took jobs at UAL during the same timeframe, and I think most knew they were taking a risk (sure enough, they were). But at least they have a seniority number at a major airline to show for it.

Suppose you had a cousin who smoked his whole life, even after you told him many times that you wished he'd quit. Would you look into his eyes, on his death bed, and say, "I knew this was going to happen to you. I knew you'd spend your last month coughing up blood and then die painfully."

Mesa pilots had far fewer clear warnings.

How could Mesa pilots not see the signs when those outside Mesa saw them and stood or got away?

Its not like all pilots hate Mesa pilots, we will help friends try to get hired at our respective airlines or write letters of recommendation. But just like your last example we can say why didn't you see the signs or risk 5 years ago or 3 years ago when others were still hiring. They took a risk to gain time at a risky airline with a bad reputation, get the time and experience before the music stopped. But for many they got caught and have to go down with the sinking ship. Still all of us will help out our friends and others effected at Mesa.

NEGLIGENCE - The failure to use reasonable care. The doing of something which a reasonably prudent person would not do, or the failure to do something which a reasonably prudent person would do under like circumstances. A departure from what an ordinary reasonable member of the community would do in the same community.