History of Mesa
04-22-2010, 01:23 AM
#1
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History of Mesa
Can someone tell the story of how Mesa came to be what it is today? The 5 airlines pulled together to prevent whipsaw. Mesa, freedom, air Midwest, ????, and ???? I don't know enough about it all and how it effected their contract.
04-22-2010, 06:01 AM
#2
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I believe the other airline was CCAir. CCair guys got screwed, they either had to go along with everybody else with the integration or they'd be on the streets. There is just not much leverage when you're being bought and integrated. Unfortunately, if you look at past regional contracts that's the price you pay if you want to end whipsaw. The important thing to understand about it all is that JO made them all an offer they couldn't refuse. And back then I don't think anyone expected to be at Mesa more than a few years anyways. It's a sad story of a currupt management that put greed before ethics and sound business practices.
04-22-2010, 06:30 AM
#3
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Don't forget Florida Gulf and Desert Sun, though I think the latter was actually started by mesa to fly the Fokker jets and then merged back in later. Mesa also started Skyway airlines and operated that whole thing until Midwest bought them out. Mesa also operated their long-ago CMH hub partly as an entity known as Superior airlines, which I believe was also folded back into the Mesa Airlines certificate. I know there are more, but I can't remember them off the top of my head... So many people getting screwed, it's hard to keep track!
04-22-2010, 06:45 AM
#5
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Approximate timeline, from memory, so don't quote me.
Episode I: Phantom Menace. A long time ago in a galaxy in the middle of nowhere Larry Risley (sp?) founded mesa with a couple light twins in FMN around 1980. It grew into a prop commuter over time, acquiring a few other small commuters along the way. Larry was always a jackass but lacked the imagination to achieve world-class status.
Episode II: Attack of the Clones
JO worked for Risley for a while and then left to work for Branson and CAL. Mesa by this time was doing UAX and America West express. Mesa helped AW out of bankruptcy and got a long-term contract out of the deal. CC-air was acquired and force integrated at a much lower payscale under threat of being vaporized by the death star (provided US feed contact?). UA fires mesa in the late 90's for performance.
Episode III: Revenge of the Sith. Following the UA contract termination, the mesa BOD fires the founder Risley, and invites Darth OJ back as CEO. Since OJ had probably about worn out his welcome at CAL, he accepted the offer. He settles in and gets busy:
- After 9/11, is able to get the BK court to re-instate mesa as a UAX carrier, at the expense of ACA and Air Whiskey.
- Gets 900 flying for AW, founds alter-ego Freedom to whipsaw mag pilots.
- Gets concessionary contract in exchange for scope.
- Get's fired by legacy airways during their third BK, but AW and AA merge, so he's back in the fold.
- Get's some DL flying
- Opens HI branded operation, gets sued, loses most of his liquid assets.
- Opens China branded operations, loses more money, gets out.
- Gets more DL flying, but is unable to to perform, so gets fired from all of it. DL 900 and D-8 flying terminated, ERJ flying still going (lawsuit pending).
- AW Begins drawdown.
- UA begins drawdown.
- BK
Episode I: Phantom Menace. A long time ago in a galaxy in the middle of nowhere Larry Risley (sp?) founded mesa with a couple light twins in FMN around 1980. It grew into a prop commuter over time, acquiring a few other small commuters along the way. Larry was always a jackass but lacked the imagination to achieve world-class status.
Episode II: Attack of the Clones
JO worked for Risley for a while and then left to work for Branson and CAL. Mesa by this time was doing UAX and America West express. Mesa helped AW out of bankruptcy and got a long-term contract out of the deal. CC-air was acquired and force integrated at a much lower payscale under threat of being vaporized by the death star (provided US feed contact?). UA fires mesa in the late 90's for performance.
Episode III: Revenge of the Sith. Following the UA contract termination, the mesa BOD fires the founder Risley, and invites Darth OJ back as CEO. Since OJ had probably about worn out his welcome at CAL, he accepted the offer. He settles in and gets busy:
- After 9/11, is able to get the BK court to re-instate mesa as a UAX carrier, at the expense of ACA and Air Whiskey.
- Gets 900 flying for AW, founds alter-ego Freedom to whipsaw mag pilots.
- Gets concessionary contract in exchange for scope.
- Get's fired by legacy airways during their third BK, but AW and AA merge, so he's back in the fold.
- Get's some DL flying
- Opens HI branded operation, gets sued, loses most of his liquid assets.
- Opens China branded operations, loses more money, gets out.
- Gets more DL flying, but is unable to to perform, so gets fired from all of it. DL 900 and D-8 flying terminated, ERJ flying still going (lawsuit pending).
- AW Begins drawdown.
- UA begins drawdown.
- BK
04-22-2010, 06:50 AM
#6
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Originally Posted by avi8tor4life
Can someone tell the story of how Mesa came to be what it is today? The 5 airlines pulled together to prevent whipsaw. Mesa, freedom, air Midwest, ????, and ???? I don't know enough about it all and how it effected their contract.
There is a lot of uninformed rhetoric you may hear from many pilots ignorant of the struggles of the MAG ALPA pilot group. I would argue that the MAG pilot's have done as much or even more than many pilot groups to prevent whipsaw and gain control of their scope. The MAG pilot group is under one seniority list. This list and it's associated powerful scope was gained through years of sacrificed quality of life and pay.
"The six pilot groups had voted to unionize in 1994. In 1996, the pilot groups of the six airlines were merged into one common seniority list, and under the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) representation, the pilots and Mesa negotiated and ratified a five-year collective bargaining agreement...Mesa created a separate subsidiary, called Freedom Airlines to operate these aircraft. As the scope restriction at US Airways was removed during US Airways' bankruptcy reorganization and after Mesa settled with its pilot union regarding operating Freedom as a separate air carrier, Freedom's aircraft and pilots were merged back into Mesa Airlines in 2003....Mesa acquired CCAir and its USAir Express codeshare in 1999. It continued to operate CCAir as a separate operation. By 2002, CCAir ceased operations due to high costs and its assets and employees were absorbed into Mesa." - Wikipedia (The CCAir pilots had a very good contract and were kicked to the curb by MAG management who simply wanted their routes. They were subsequently voted in and integrated through MAG ALPA contract negotiation. - winglet).
Dispite what some may have you believe, MAG pilots have sacrificed a great deal for the betterment of the industry. Our contracts have represented those sacrifices. In any contract negotiation sacrifices are made to make gains in other more important areas. When faced with the decision to strengthen scope and integrate pilot seniority or remain divided and increase pay, many pilot groups have chosen themselves over the whole. MAG pilots have consistently chosen to look at the "big picture" and time and again defeated whipsaw and strengthened scope.
Not many will remember the battles, but those that were there will always be proud of their accomplishments against one of the most anti-labor managements in the industry.
From Wikipedia: Mesa Airlines
From Mesa Air Group: Mesa Air Group, Inc.
Interesting old article from Funding Universe: Mesa Air Group, Inc.
winglet
Last edited by winglet; 04-22-2010 at 07:07 AM.
04-22-2010, 07:09 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by winglet
avi8tor4life,
There is a lot of uninformed rhetoric you may hear from many pilots ignorant of the struggles of the MAG ALPA pilot group. I would argue that the MAG pilot's have done as much or even more than many pilot groups to prevent whipsaw and gain control of their scope. The MAG pilot group is under one seniority list. This list and it's associated powerful scope was gained through years of sacrificed quality of life and pay.
"The six pilot groups had voted to unionize in 1994. In 1996, the pilot groups of the six airlines were merged into one common seniority list, and under the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) representation, the pilots and Mesa negotiated and ratified a five-year collective bargaining agreement...Mesa created a separate subsidiary, called Freedom Airlines to operate these aircraft. As the scope restriction at US Airways was removed during US Airways' bankruptcy reorganization and after Mesa settled with its pilot union regarding operating Freedom as a separate air carrier, Freedom's aircraft and pilots were merged back into Mesa Airlines in 2003....Mesa acquired CCAir and its USAir Express codeshare in 1999. It continued to operate CCAir as a separate operation. By 2002, CCAir ceased operations due to high costs and its assets and employees were absorbed into Mesa." - Wikipedia (The CCAir pilots had a very good contract and were kicked to the curb by MAG management who simply wanted their routes. They were subsequently voted in and integrated through MAG ALPA contract negotiation. - winglet).
Dispite what some may have you believe, MAG pilots have sacrificed a great deal for the betterment of the industry. Our contracts have represented those sacrifices. In any contract negotiation sacrifices are made to make gains in other more important areas. When faced with the decision to strengthen scope and integrate pilot seniority or remain divided and increase pay, many pilot groups have chosen themselves over the whole. MAG pilots have consistently chosen to look at the "big picture" and time and again defeated whipsaw and strengthened scope.
Not many will remember the battles, but those that were there will always be proud of their accomplishments against one of the most anti-labor managements in the industry.
From Wikipedia: Mesa Airlines
From Mesa Air Group: Mesa Air Group, Inc.
Interesting old article from Funding Universe: Mesa Air Group, Inc.
winglet
There is a lot of uninformed rhetoric you may hear from many pilots ignorant of the struggles of the MAG ALPA pilot group. I would argue that the MAG pilot's have done as much or even more than many pilot groups to prevent whipsaw and gain control of their scope. The MAG pilot group is under one seniority list. This list and it's associated powerful scope was gained through years of sacrificed quality of life and pay.
"The six pilot groups had voted to unionize in 1994. In 1996, the pilot groups of the six airlines were merged into one common seniority list, and under the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) representation, the pilots and Mesa negotiated and ratified a five-year collective bargaining agreement...Mesa created a separate subsidiary, called Freedom Airlines to operate these aircraft. As the scope restriction at US Airways was removed during US Airways' bankruptcy reorganization and after Mesa settled with its pilot union regarding operating Freedom as a separate air carrier, Freedom's aircraft and pilots were merged back into Mesa Airlines in 2003....Mesa acquired CCAir and its USAir Express codeshare in 1999. It continued to operate CCAir as a separate operation. By 2002, CCAir ceased operations due to high costs and its assets and employees were absorbed into Mesa." - Wikipedia (The CCAir pilots had a very good contract and were kicked to the curb by MAG management who simply wanted their routes. They were subsequently voted in and integrated through MAG ALPA contract negotiation. - winglet).
Dispite what some may have you believe, MAG pilots have sacrificed a great deal for the betterment of the industry. Our contracts have represented those sacrifices. In any contract negotiation sacrifices are made to make gains in other more important areas. When faced with the decision to strengthen scope and integrate pilot seniority or remain divided and increase pay, many pilot groups have chosen themselves over the whole. MAG pilots have consistently chosen to look at the "big picture" and time and again defeated whipsaw and strengthened scope.
Not many will remember the battles, but those that were there will always be proud of their accomplishments against one of the most anti-labor managements in the industry.
From Wikipedia: Mesa Airlines
From Mesa Air Group: Mesa Air Group, Inc.
Interesting old article from Funding Universe: Mesa Air Group, Inc.
winglet
04-22-2010, 08:08 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by avi8tor4life
Can someone tell the story of how Mesa came to be what it is today? The 5 airlines pulled together to prevent whipsaw. Mesa, freedom, air Midwest, ????, and ???? I don't know enough about it all and how it effected their contract.
Flame bait thread
I'm sure you can find the history of Mesa somewhere on this forum.
04-22-2010, 08:16 AM
#9
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And no mention of the destruction and seniority list inversion by Mesa of a happy little northwest airline called NPA....or of the gutting and dismembering of what was once the largest regional/commuter in the USA - WestAir???
04-22-2010, 10:15 AM
#10
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Posts: 208
If I recall CCAir shut down about the time Freedom was started, just a little bit after. Most of Freedom's original routes were CCAir routes.
CCAir pilots, every single one of them, were integrated into the Mesa seniority list. It was the first time that pilots from an airline that had ceased operation were integrated into an active airline's seniority list.
CCAir pilots, every single one of them, were integrated into the Mesa seniority list. It was the first time that pilots from an airline that had ceased operation were integrated into an active airline's seniority list.
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