Mesa Merger Scenarios
07-13-2010, 12:05 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 284
Originally Posted by hiplainsdrifter
I’ll weigh in on this one and consolidate what some folks have already said. Mesa still has two standing viable, current contracts. When the bankruptcy court grants the approval to exit bankruptcy, it will be with a business plan that many parties have vetted. At that point, Mesa, a streamlined, debt balanced company, could be “in play” and be bought by another company who would absorb and possibly diversify into the United and USAir contracts with the 700 and 900 flying.
The chances of Mesa just “going away” is too remote and unlikely to even comment on. The UAL and USA contracts with the 7 and 9 flying alone more than likely would stop such an event. Doing a quick scan of the APC profiles show only Mesaba has more 900’s, 3 more, than Mesa. Raise a little money with the sale of GO (to who I don't know!?), and let Piedmont pick a PHX base and everybody’s happy.
My friends there pretty much feel the only way forward, the lesser of evils, would be a purchase of the company, anything to shed their management. Becoming a division of a viable other airline may be a nice change. Who knows, but I guess we will all see soon enough.
The chances of Mesa just “going away” is too remote and unlikely to even comment on. The UAL and USA contracts with the 7 and 9 flying alone more than likely would stop such an event. Doing a quick scan of the APC profiles show only Mesaba has more 900’s, 3 more, than Mesa. Raise a little money with the sale of GO (to who I don't know!?), and let Piedmont pick a PHX base and everybody’s happy.
My friends there pretty much feel the only way forward, the lesser of evils, would be a purchase of the company, anything to shed their management. Becoming a division of a viable other airline may be a nice change. Who knows, but I guess we will all see soon enough.
you sure about this? I think the chances are pretty good they liquidate. Mesa really isn't a viable company if the usair contract doesn't get extended and we all know that there are many other companies salivating over the kill. Oh and many of those companies have alot of money just hanging around giving them the opportunity to undercut the **** out of mesa or even offer loans to USair... I would say the chances of the creditors and Parker getting a better deal from another carrier are very good. In the end it's only the creditors that matter.
Let's be clear about one more thing. No management wants to pick up your pilot group. They are looking at cost and the intergration issues associated with doing it. Why do that instead of just taking the contracts and airplanes. Capitalism is a beotch sometimes i'm just trying to be realistic. Maybe people are looking at buying Mesa's scrapps if they emerge but that's the last option i'm sure.
No offense to you guys. I honestly don't want anyone to lose their livelyhood but to managements you're just a cost and as in every single case in the airline industry cutting costs is the whole game.
07-13-2010, 12:56 PM
#22
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Joined APC: Jun 2010
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Posts: 96
Originally Posted by flyingkangaroo
you sure about this? I think the chances are pretty good they liquidate. Mesa really isn't a viable company if the usair contract doesn't get extended and we all know that there are many other companies salivating over the kill. Oh and many of those companies have alot of money just hanging around giving them the opportunity to undercut the **** out of mesa or even offer loans to USair... I would say the chances of the creditors and Parker getting a better deal from another carrier are very good. In the end it's only the creditors that matter.
Let's be clear about one more thing. No management wants to pick up your pilot group. They are looking at cost and the intergration issues associated with doing it. Why do that instead of just taking the contracts and airplanes. Capitalism is a beotch sometimes i'm just trying to be realistic. Maybe people are looking at buying Mesa's scrapps if they emerge but that's the last option i'm sure.
No offense to you guys. I honestly don't want anyone to lose their livelyhood but to managements you're just a cost and as in every single case in the airline industry cutting costs is the whole game.
Let's be clear about one more thing. No management wants to pick up your pilot group. They are looking at cost and the intergration issues associated with doing it. Why do that instead of just taking the contracts and airplanes. Capitalism is a beotch sometimes i'm just trying to be realistic. Maybe people are looking at buying Mesa's scrapps if they emerge but that's the last option i'm sure.
No offense to you guys. I honestly don't want anyone to lose their livelyhood but to managements you're just a cost and as in every single case in the airline industry cutting costs is the whole game.
Someone feel free to back me up but my understanding is that we have an LOA that prevents our airplanes from going anywhere else without our pilot group, even in a complete liquidation. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong
07-13-2010, 02:19 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 247
Originally Posted by Ferlofodder
Someone feel free to back me up but my understanding is that we have an LOA that prevents our airplanes from going anywhere else without our pilot group, even in a complete liquidation. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong
07-13-2010, 02:31 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by hemaybedid
I think that your LOA would have to either be with every airline your airplanes could possibly go to, or with the leasing company for that to be the case.
07-13-2010, 03:31 PM
#25
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Posts: 86
you sure about this? I think the chances are pretty good they liquidate. Mesa really isn't a viable company if the usair contract doesn't get extended and we all know that there are many other companies salivating over the kill. Oh and many of those companies have alot of money just hanging around giving them the opportunity to undercut the **** out of mesa or even offer loans to USair... I would say the chances of the creditors and Parker getting a better deal from another carrier are very good. In the end it's only the creditors that matter.
Let's be clear about one more thing. No management wants to pick up your pilot group. They are looking at cost and the intergration issues associated with doing it. Why do that instead of just taking the contracts and airplanes. Capitalism is a beotch sometimes i'm just trying to be realistic. Maybe people are looking at buying Mesa's scrapps if they emerge but that's the last option i'm sure.
No offense to you guys. I honestly don't want anyone to lose their livelyhood but to managements you're just a cost and as in every single case in the airline industry cutting costs is the whole game.
Let's be clear about one more thing. No management wants to pick up your pilot group. They are looking at cost and the intergration issues associated with doing it. Why do that instead of just taking the contracts and airplanes. Capitalism is a beotch sometimes i'm just trying to be realistic. Maybe people are looking at buying Mesa's scrapps if they emerge but that's the last option i'm sure.
No offense to you guys. I honestly don't want anyone to lose their livelyhood but to managements you're just a cost and as in every single case in the airline industry cutting costs is the whole game.
Glad you’re settled down, it’s going to be ok. We are predicting events about a company that we have no idea what’s happening in the court room or board rooms. And we all saw how spot on we all were about the Compass / Mesaba deal, oh wait, that caught us all with our pants around our ankles. Woops.
FlayingKangaroo, I imagine you’ve been an ASA pilot for quite some time? To relish the demise of another airline, another ALPA airline for that matter, shows a pretty deep flaw. Nice FK, real nice. So maybe your smarting from becoming a division of SkyWest, bet that was an interesting evolution.
Let's be clear about one more thing. No management wants to pick up your pilot group. They are looking at cost and the intergration issues associated with doing it.
Tell that to Pinnacle and Tran States.
I don’t work for Mesa but I’ve read all the bashing for years and know that it would have been just a twist of fate for me to fly for them. There are many ways their current situation could go, and we’re all probably way off base.
Last edited by hiplainsdrifter; 07-13-2010 at 08:46 PM.
07-13-2010, 04:02 PM
#27
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,401
Originally Posted by Ferlofodder
Someone feel free to back me up but my understanding is that we have an LOA that prevents our airplanes from going anywhere else without our pilot group, even in a complete liquidation. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong
07-13-2010, 04:12 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
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Posts: 39,401
Originally Posted by Ferlofodder
My guess is that its with the leasing company. Just from what I've heard through our MEC. Ive been wrong before. If anyone knows more about this please chime in.
Waaaaaay too hard, a leasing company would not agree to that...unless the original leasor paid them mucho extra to do it. So Mesa is going to pay extra to provide pilot job security after their own demise
07-13-2010, 05:47 PM
#29
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Hot tub for now
Posts: 1,203
Originally Posted by Ferlofodder
My guess is that its with the leasing company. Just from what I've heard through our MEC. Ive been wrong before. If anyone knows more about this please chime in.
In a perfect world if your airplanes went flying elsewhere, the pilots would go along with them.
PSA's management was for this as well. It meant that they could get current qualified pilots at year 1 pay.
Alpa would give them seniority at the other airline but would start at year 1 pay. Either Captain or F/O.
So ALPA would be happy protecting pilots. They would lose income because of the year 1 pay but they would still get some.
Company is happy because they are getting year 1 captains.
I personally don't think this is fair. If people work at Mesa, they have the job security of working for Delta, US Airways, United...
Where as if you are a wholly owned you have only one airline.
Even if Mesa pilots went to another airline to work flying the same airplanes they would still have to start from scratch from a training point of view.
One of the reasons why Mesa is going out of business is because J.O. is not a person who has great leadership skills.
He treated people like crap, took advantage of them and look where it got the company.
07-14-2010, 08:35 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 284
Originally Posted by hiplainsdrifter
Wow FlyingKangaroo, you are pretty excited and wound up about this whole thing, deep breaths, here’s a paper bag, in…. out…. Good. I especially like the bold red font, nice.
Glad you’re settled down, it’s going to be ok. We are predicting events about a company that we have no idea what’s happening in the court room or board rooms. And we all saw how spot on we all were about the Compass / Mesaba deal, oh wait, that caught us all with our pants around our ankles. Woops.
FlayingKangaroo, I imagine you’ve been an ASA pilot for quite some time? To relish the demise of another airline, another ALPA airline for that matter, shows a pretty deep flaw. Nice FK, real nice. So maybe your smarting from becoming a division of SkyWest, bet that was an interesting evolution.
Tell that to Pinnacle and Tran States.
I don’t work for Mesa but I’ve read all the bashing for years and know that it would have been just a twist of fate for me to fly for them. There are many ways their current situation could go, and we’re all probably way off base.
Glad you’re settled down, it’s going to be ok. We are predicting events about a company that we have no idea what’s happening in the court room or board rooms. And we all saw how spot on we all were about the Compass / Mesaba deal, oh wait, that caught us all with our pants around our ankles. Woops.
FlayingKangaroo, I imagine you’ve been an ASA pilot for quite some time? To relish the demise of another airline, another ALPA airline for that matter, shows a pretty deep flaw. Nice FK, real nice. So maybe your smarting from becoming a division of SkyWest, bet that was an interesting evolution.
Tell that to Pinnacle and Tran States.
I don’t work for Mesa but I’ve read all the bashing for years and know that it would have been just a twist of fate for me to fly for them. There are many ways their current situation could go, and we’re all probably way off base.
I'll use the red font again so get over it. Time and time again I have said that I don't take and joy from the idea of others losing their jobs. I'm looking at this from an investment point of view and how i'm sure airline execs are looking at it.
I'm sorry I tried to reason it out for you but telling me to calm down is assanine. It's not productive to the discussion and threads just turn into yelling matches.
In terms of TSA and pinnacle; I believe those situations to be different. Both pilot groups were junior and both came with secured flying with little liabilities. Right now that isn't the case for Mesa.
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