![]() |
Originally Posted by Iowa Farm Boy
(Post 1643548)
Oh to be born with with a silver spoon, make EVERY SINGLE life choice correctly, marry a rich girl, and have good timing.
I didn't start flying until I had a family, and paid for it out of pocket with no loans. I stayed at jobs that allowed me to actually raise my family, and then came to a regional just in time to be denied upgrade because of 9/11. When I did hold CA (at the 8 yr. mark) I got displaced the day after finishing IOE. I may yet get to a major, or I may retire at a regional. Either way I hope to not fly with gilded wonder boys (guess who?). My success or failure is not defined by you. I'll let my wife, son and grandsons decide after I'm gone. |
Originally Posted by toomanyrjs
(Post 1643437)
He actually makes a valid point. "Captain" pay should be capped around 65k and FO's should start around 50k. There's no reason to reward lifers for their career failures. Get hired, get your time, gtfo. It's how it's always been.
|
Originally Posted by toomanyrjs
(Post 1643437)
There's no reason to reward lifers for their career failures. Get hired, get your time, gtfo. It's how it's always been.
Originally Posted by toomanyrjs
(Post 1643527)
I'm not saying every lifer is a total screw up, but by definition, a lifer at a regional is a failed pilot career..
Originally Posted by Iowa Farm Boy
(Post 1643548)
I may yet get to a major, or I may retire at a regional. Either way I hope to not fly with gilded wonder boys (guess who?). My success or failure is not defined by you. I'll let my wife, son and grandsons decide after I'm gone.
Originally Posted by logic1
(Post 1643555)
It's not Ornsteins fault that our contract sucks, it is ours (the pilots) fault. We voted it in. The fault is squarely on our shoulders.
Originally Posted by NVUS
(Post 1643549)
And pilots continue to not only work there but beat a path to his door, continuing to put gobs of money in his pocket.
Originally Posted by ArcherDvr
(Post 1643590)
Incredibly ignorant. It hasn't always been 50% of the flying was done by regionals. Infact in the beginning of the decade I think it was around 5%. Either way, people can't gtfo if there is no where to go. It is the majors that turned regional flying into a career decision instead of a stepping stone by shifting more flying from mainline to the regionals.
|
Originally Posted by toomanyrjs
(Post 1643527)
I'm not saying every lifer is a total screw up, but by definition, a lifer at a regional is a failed pilot career. Lifers take an excessive piece of the pie which is subsidized by the low FO pay. Taken to the extreme, look at the actions of the lifers at RAH. The unbridled greed displayed by the seniority grab at Frontier was unparalleled in the industry.
You may want to see a surgeon and have that spoon removed before you end up swallowing it. |
MESA CEO isn't the only one...
It appears Republic's Bryan Bedford received his copy of the RAA talking points in the mail so that all of them can be on the same band wagon:
Republic?s Bedford Calls for New Pilot Pay Model | Aviation International News |
Originally Posted by toomanyrjs
(Post 1643527)
I'm not saying every lifer is a total screw up, but by definition, a lifer at a regional is a failed pilot career. Lifers take an excessive piece of the pie which is subsidized by the low FO pay. Taken to the extreme, look at the actions of the lifers at RAH. The unbridled greed displayed by the seniority grab at Frontier was unparalleled in the industry.
In my case, from my first fight lesson I wanted to fly for a legacy. Therefore if I never leave RAH, I consider MY career a failure and myself a loser. I |
Originally Posted by Loon
(Post 1643628)
I'm gonna have to go ahead and sort of AGREE with you there! With one exception, of course: if, from the get-go, your career goal was to be a regional lifer.
In my case, from my first fight lesson I wanted to fly for a legacy. Therefore if I never leave RAH, I consider MY career a failure and myself a loser. I |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 1643515)
Yes, they control the whole pie. But get real...if you made the pie bigger, the senior pilots would NOT turn that excess over to junior pilots or new-hires. Anybody who's been around longer than a few months knows that :rolleyes:
It should not be a question of take money away from Capt's to give to FO's, both of which have a professional responsibility for the safety of paying customers, other employees, and expensive assets of either their employer's company or that of their employer's customer. It should be an effort to stand up for an acceptable wage / work rules for both pilots. If increases are made in the size of the whole pie and it is disproportionately given to captains, then indeed that should be dealt with internally, but the existing discrepancy has more to do with inordinately low FO pay, not exorbitantly high Capt pay. I believe to have captains making six figures is OK, but to have FO's making $20k to $40k is NOT OK - my life and the other flying public deserves more "credit' than that. But, it is up to each of you as pilots and all of you as pilots to make the efforts necessary to educate both new pilots and the public. That takes effort on many fronts - some will suffer, some will fail - but you have made some strides forward, do not allow those not aligned with your future progress to get you to fail due to in-fighting. You as individual pilots have no direct control over the existence of regional airlines, or their business model. You can influence them of course, but where you have control is how you interact with each other, what you accept as pay and work rules, and how / where you communicate. I suggest you work toward making this an acceptable work wage and conditions, so that when conditions beyond your control make you a "regional lifer", then you can look back and realize that your llife and your career are distinctly different, and perhaps you can leave the career prospects better for those coming behind you. |
Originally Posted by EWRflyr
(Post 1643626)
It appears Republic's Bryan Bedford received his copy of the RAA talking points in the mail so that all of them can be on the same band wagon:
Republic?s Bedford Calls for New Pilot Pay Model | Aviation International News But isn't that in direct contradiction to the whole reason regional airlines exist in the first place? So you can have different pay tiers for doing the same job as the legacies? You can't have your cake and eat it too because the real solution puts Mr. Bedford out of a job. Maybe Mr. Bedford should have said this instead "I don't think that model works and perhaps the next major airline that figures out how to more rationalize pay between the larger and smaller aircraft types will be one of the winners in the future." Having said that maybe Mr. Bedford would care to propose a new pay structure for parties to evaluate. I can't stand it when people do nothing but point out problems but refuse to offer a solution of their own. Having said all this, I think his solution might be the only thing that saves Silver Airways from folding. It's too late for Great Lakes as they will likely fold before the end of this month. |
GTFO becomes harder and harder, if pilots keep chasing upgrade and will take low pay just to move on, because the jobs to which you can move disappear. It is the conundrum that has been played so well against the pilots. Go to a crappy regional in hopes of getting out quickly, but instead the crappy regional expands because it's labor costs are so low. As this happens, mainline jobs shrink.
There used to be crappy and not so bad regionals to go to; now they all are crappy. How'd that GTFO strategy work? |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:16 PM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands