Originally Posted by bedrock
(Post 1643688)
GTFO becomes harder and harder, if pilots keep chasing upgrade and will take low pay just to move on, because the jobs to which you can move disappear. It is the conundrum that has been played so well against the pilots. Go to a crappy regional in hopes of getting out quickly, but instead the crappy regional expands because it's labor costs are so low. As this happens, mainline jobs shrink.
There used to be crappy and not so bad regionals to go to; now they all are crappy. How'd that GTFO strategy work? |
I remember when I was in upgrade at Colgan and Phil Trenary came in to talk to our class. He was giving an overview of the regional industry and get got to the point of Mesa.
He mentioned that he guaranteed Mesa would be back, bigger than ever, and Ornstein would be out for blood. If only I hadn't laughed then... |
Originally Posted by tom11011
(Post 1643695)
You're a wise man +1
:D |
Originally Posted by toomanyrjs
(Post 1643527)
I'm not saying every lifer is a total screw up, but by definition, a lifer at a regional is a failed pilot career. Lifers take an excessive piece of the pie which is subsidized by the low FO pay. Taken to the extreme, look at the actions of the lifers at RAH. The unbridled greed displayed by the seniority grab at Frontier was unparalleled in the industry.
Second, most regionals are flying a great deal of 70+ seat aircraft along with the 50 seaters. Same airspace, same passengers, and same ballpark number of seats as plenty of smaller legacy aircraft from a few years back. The piece of the pie is not, as you say, excessive. The problem is the pie is too small by far. No easy fix, but a few overwhelming No votes recently are a good first step. But perhaps you would not know about voting No and seeking pay and QOL improvements. For you to get started on some rant about failed pilots and excessive regional left seat pay marks you as either troll or management. |
Originally Posted by Loon
(Post 1643628)
I'm gonna have to go ahead and sort of AGREE with you there! With one exception, of course: if, from the get-go, your career goal was to be a regional lifer.
In my case, from my first fight lesson I wanted to fly for a legacy. Therefore if I never leave RAH, I consider MY career a failure and myself a loser. I |
Originally Posted by ClarenceOver
(Post 1643733)
Then call me a failure and a loser because my first choice is RAH. Why?If i make captain i instantly become a lifer. Other regionals are getting 175's. Republic already has 175's. I don't want to go through ground school 5 times and i don't want 5 type ratings. I want to endure the suck only once and then get the seniority to have a decent quality of life. These kids that are obsessed with going to a major especially before even getting to a regional are idiots. Yeah i know i am one to talk because im not in the industry yet. But in all honesty id still rather have SJS than dig ditches. But 60-100k a year fling for a living doesn't sound too bad to me! Before anybody says the whole you don't have the right goals you are whats wrong with the industry blah blah blah. Come on guys, this industry was messed up as it is. It was a bad idea to start regional airlines in the first place and didn't make sense financially. Flame away at my post but thats just how i feel and in America i am at least entitled to my opinion.
Maybe what you don't understand, is that due to the nature of the outsourcing regional model, you probably won't be able to have a career at the regionals. They are built on cheap labor, after you get up the ladder to 10 yrs, you are too expensive. With a senior pilot group, they can't compete with a regional with a newer, cheaper workforce. Then there is the BS, EVERYTHING is done on the cheap. All the support staff are hired on the cheap. So everyday, you are not only doing your job, but scheduling's, dispatches, payroll, and ramp's. You are a contractor, so your travel privileges aren't as good either. Then at some point, you and your co-workers get fed up with doing everybody else's job, and that begins or accelerates the demise of the airline. At that point, they try to get labor cost cuts AND they also start their endgame plan--bankruptcy or wind-down. Now you've been there 10 yrs, making decent pay as a captain. What are your options? Ride it out for another couple of years, or start over again somewhere else? That is the way it is currently. Also, you will need 100k+ worth of training, and experience, plus a 4,5,6,7,8... years? before you get to that 60K dollar paycheck. I can get a 2 yr degree as a technical specialist in operating medical equipment and START at 60K! |
I haven't spent a cent on aviation just time that 60k a year is all profit. An yes I know I am very rare.
|
Originally Posted by ClarenceOver
(Post 1643781)
I haven't spent a cent on aviation just time that 60k a year is all profit. An yes I know I am very rare.
|
Originally Posted by brianb
(Post 1643565)
Yes, one of the more idiotic statements ever made on APC.
|
Can anybody provide a source that cites Ornstein is actually a convicted felon? I'm not trolling, just looking for a legitimate source to back up that statement.
I've done a few Google searches and all I've come up with is a few puff pieces by Forbes, about his checkered past as a stockbroker, and his SEC violations and sanctions. But I can't find anything that actually says he received felony convictions. |
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