Suggestions Mesa/TSA/Envoy/GoJet
 

Hello people,

I'm new in the forum. I'm still kinda looking for information about the Regional airlines, I'm planning to interview soon with one of them. Currently the ones that got my attention are Mesa Airlines, Trans State Airlines, Envoy and GoJet Airlines.

Any thoughts on which one is the best decision to go with? Any information about them? If they're growing or not, etc.

I know there should be a lot of opinions, like Mesa, most of the people say to run away from them, but I don't know if is true. I want to read your suggestions.

Thanks for the help!!!

I don't think you will much on here that would make you want to go to gojet. I was there and I never imagined that a company would ever treat people like they did. I won't go into details because others already have. I kind of feel like the only survivor of a platoon at the end of the war and will feel guilty about it the rest of my life. If you go there after finding out about it then you are a fool, which I hope you are not. I don't think TSA is much better. I have no opinion about Mesa.

Skywest has the best training in the industry and upgrade will be about 2 years which is pretty quick for most people who need to get some experience before going into the left seat. Skywest runs a quality outfit and they get pass privileges on Delta, United, American, and Alaska. Delta is the one you want. United flights are always overbooked so their pass privileges are worthless.

So people are telling you to run away from mesa, but you want other random strangers to verify if it's true? Did you look at any of the applicable threads before posting this? Don't answer that.

Of the 4 you mentioned, Envoy. Stay away from the other 3 unless you can live in base and drive to work. Even then, I would consider staying away from them.

Of those 4 I would consider Envoy the most serious. While far from perfect, I think it would provide you with the best opportunity as of right now.

Mesa has awful pay and will likely stagnate in the near future as their aircraft deliveries drop off and upgrades slow to a trickle.

TSA has been having difficulty filling classes and I think I read that they are not taking all of the originally slated 145 deliveries?

GoJet just upped first year pay but they got rid of their new hire bonus (to my understanding) which means you will make the same as almost anywhere else right now when you take that bonus out of the equation. Unless you live in STL I wouldn't really consider them.

LOL. Of all the regionals you are looking at the three of the worst regionals out there. I never thought Envoy would be listed among the bottom but we have definitely been left behind with the pay scale QOL and stagnation. So for now I guess we are one of the bottoms. Any ways, to answer you question of those four Envoy is the no brainier.

However, why not Endeavor, Skywest, or even air Wisconsin?

Where do you live? Are you planning on moving?

What is the most junior domicile for Envoy? I am planning on living near DFW, and just want a regional where I do not have to commute.

TSA is not stopping deliveries. You heard wrong.

Envoy shoot me a pm if you need any info

At envoy, the last few classes have been mostly DFW with a few ORD slots. Going forward, I have been told they are planning mostly E175 DFW.

E, none of the above. You've picked 3 of the worst and the 4th (Envoy) is a shell of what it used to be as American Eagle. Why not throw in Great Lakes too? (extreme sarcasm)

And Endeavor is better? Ha!

I think it is. Please explain?

Good questions.

I don't see much of a connection between these choices except there is SOME domicile overlap. I hope this pilot has accessed each carriers websites, all of which have good info about pay, domiciles, incentives and other facts. Mesa, GoJet and Trans States have quick upgrades with their most junior captains hired anywhere from February to October 2015 according to their website info, so advancement potential is strong there as is the additional $ earned due to quicker upgrade projection vs. bonuses, etc. Envoy has a flow-thru to AA though, but a slow crawl to upgrade.

The other carriers are strong choices, but there must be some reason he/she is not targeting them.

Out of those, Envoy hands down, especially if you want to live and be based in DFW. QOL will be good not commuting.

Mesa has a DFW base, so that would be an option. Trans States and GoJet have ORD bases along with Envoy there, so those would options too.

I'm an ATP CFI, those that I mention have the tuition reimbursement program.

I forgot to mention that. That's why Skywest is not in my options, theyre not part of the program, if not... Skywest without thinking it twice.

Thanks for the comments, I still looking some more!

I believe that some regionals are so bad they should not be considered by any pilot who has choices.

I think there is consensus as to the worst place to go, by far. The way they have treated employees for many years had been terrible. FAA actions against their pilots is at a rate of something like 10 times the average. Anyone care to say who it is?

Does it start with a G?

When I was at Gojet the FAA was all over them. There were about 200 captains and I believe that 47 had FAA enforcement actions filed against them. I don't think it is a pleasant experience leaving there and trying to explain to the major that you were merely following the company procedures when you were issued the violation.

I would place Gojet at the very bottom and I don't think anyone will argue against that. I would put Mesa as second from the bottom and then TSA. I guess Great Lakes might go between Mesa and TSA but they are a different animal.

But they're parked because we can't staff them and we can't support them too.

Hard to believe that I am coming in third with the obvious answer. Gojet has been at the bottom since day one. I wish I had just stayed on unemployment. No jet is better than gojet. I like that, my new mantra.

Now you will see the management pilots come on here and tell you all how it is really not like it used to be, that things are better. But it is still bad. The owner is not going to change. Gojet at the bottom followed by Great Lakes.

Im from Texas, and honestly if I have to move, I'll do it.

I'm just looking what people think about them, thats all...

Im planning to get the Tuition Reimbursement, I'm an ATP CFI.

Im planning on the Tuition Reimbursement, I work with ATP as a CFI. I like SkyWest but they are not part of the program... Sadly.

Is the tuition like 10k + 5k sign in bonus? Just wondering...

I know they provide flying benefits and health insurance.

https://www.envoyair.com/home/career...reimbursement/

https://www.envoyair.com/home/career...cadet-program/

https://www.envoyair.com/home/career...line-programs/

ATP is your fast track to an airline career, with at least $11,000 in tuition reimbursement sponsored by Envoy. Here’s how it works:

Graduate from the Airline Career Pilot Program as a Certified Flight Instructor (CFI)


You’re guaranteed to become a Flight Instructor with ATP, as a graduate of the Airline Career Pilot Program Fast Track


Between 300-500 hours total time, interview with Envoy. If you accept our offer and make a commitment to fly for Envoy, we’ll make a financial contribution toward your loan payment. Payments are $5 per flight hour, based on how much flight time you acquire each month.


Start your new hire class with Envoy just two years after starting flight training, having received approximately $5,000 in tuition reimbursement. $500 monthly payments continue to supplement your first-year airline pay for at least 12 months.

Tuition can be up to $11,000. That goes to my loan. So basically the airline will pay part of my loan which is good. And if I got some sign bonus will be better!

Of those 4? Envoy DFW. Use to be one of the top regionals to work for. Things went downhill fast after bankruptcy and the Usair merger. We had a rough time and there was a lot of negativity here, but things are finally turning around again. We have been on a positive upswing for the past 6 months or so and things have been getting better. Shrinkage has stopped. FO's got a 20K bonus. New hire bonus increased. AA profit sharing plan implemented. Getting more of our old airplanes and routes back from Expressjet and Republic. Getting lots of republic flying back on our schedules lately actually. PSA transfers of our CRJ 700's halted since they can't staff them. We are Bringing back planes out of storage. Taking deliveries of 175's every month, ahead of schedule. Over 100 new Captain positions awarded this year so far. Huge Flow attrition of Captains off the top providing upward movement for FO's, has been at 30/month. It will slow for summer AA recalls (their last chance to come back to AA) but then the flow will go back to 30/mo for a while. I don't think any other regional can claim as many Captains leaving monthly for upwards career progression as we have. Not only via flow but to other Majors as well. If any other regional is losing 35+ Captains to Majors every month I would like to see it?

GoJet has a terrible history from inception and bad reputation. You will have a hard time finding anything positive about them.

Trans States operates ONLY 145's and those are a dying fleet. As AA gets more larger RJ deliveries, 145's will have to be parked due to contractual scope limitations. Envoy is in the process of replacing them with 175's. So they are better insulated from that. Trans States and Air Wisconsin are at a HUGE risk for pain and shrinkage in the future years since all their eggs are in the small RJ basket. You can find more information about the AA scope limitations in some of the other recent envoy threads.

Mesa is terrible. One of the worst reputations in the industry for a long time. They are up down, all over the place with shrinkage, growth, downgrades, furloughs, quick upgrades again. Unpredictable. They hire multiple failure rejects OVER THE PHONE, and it shows. Some of the people there are probably fine, but many of them aren't due to them having zero hiring standards. I have seen personally guys that bust type rides and fail orals at Envoy then go straight to Mesa, to any normal airline that would be a huge red flag, but they don't care. Every day in DFW it is an embarrasment watching Mesa screw up everything. They can't even handle basic radio communications on the ramp. We were just joking about this before we departed DFW and of course the Mesa guy in front of us on the ramp did it again. Some guy with a horrible accent, bumbling up the radio, doesn't know how to reply to ground where he is. Transponder not on, taxi route read back completely wrong 3 times, then they turned on the wrong bridge for opposite direction traffic (luckily nobody was coming over the bridge the other direction) and they got a phone number to call tower, probably both got a violation because DFW ground was clearly frustrated and ****ed off. We see this type of crap happening over there so often it has become the daily running joke when we push back next to a Mesa flight to see what they are going to screw up next, and it pretty much never fails they do "something" stupid. It's ridiculous. Now way I would put my certificate on the line flying for that place with people that don't know what the hell is going on.

Kind of off topic... What's the difference in taxes between loan reimbursement and a signing bonus?

A lot of bonus money is taxed at 40-50%... if loan reimbursement is tax free or a lower tax rate, that would be huge... besides, the quicker payout to avoid accruing interest.

Back on topic: I would avoid gojet and mesa. They are really bottom of the barrel. TSA and Envoy I would say are the places you should consider. I've been at TSA for 15 months, I like it overall. If you live in one of our bases, want to build time fast, not sit reserve for long, make 'good' money (since IOE I've never credited less than 100 hours/month), then this is a good place to be. I just hit my 1000 121 and put in my upgrade bid... hoping to be in upgrade class this summer... we'll see!

I don't know anything about loan reimbursement but even bonus money you get back some of that initial tax later. They tax it initially at a higher rate, but at the end of the year it all works out, your total income including the bonus is just taxed at whatever rates you are at, so you will get a lot of that bonus money back they over taxed you on.

There is a huge difference between what they WITHELD and what you are taxed come tax time. For TAX purposes, a bonus is treated like any other income. It is however WITHELD at the time of payout at a higher rate (25% federal). You get the difference back when you file

ATP's Tuition Reimbursement program isn't taxed. It is not considered income as the money never goes through you. ATP tracks how much you are paid through their website "www.pilotpool.com", they advise your partner airline how much the amount of flying was worth ($5 per hour), the partner airline sends the money to ATP, and then ATP pays the amount to the lender you financed your loan with. Because you never recieved the money and deposited it yourself, it doesn't get taxed as income.

But if you're an independent contractor like a CFI at ATP, then you're on a 1099-MISC, and you don't get any of the student loan interest you paid back in your tax return, well you basically don't qualify for any tax deductions regardless.

That's what I like to hear. That's what I'm hoping for.

Nice! Considering that you have to pay taxes on income that you would later use to pay your student loans, the reimbursement is worth that much more.

So what about the PIC time?

Joining TSA for ezameple I'll be doing PIC time in two years (upgrade to Captain) vs Envoy maybe it will take me 5 to 8 years.

Any thoughts?

Current trends suggest a 4 1/2 upgrade for a new hire today. I wouldn't put to much credence in PIC time. Mainline HR departments are changing. I have seem more FOs hired with no PIC time who serve soup to homeless Syrian Refugees than High PIC Time Captains with spotless records.

For Reference, review this thread http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...red-major.html

A newhire today should upgrade according to the company 2.5 years and according to the union (figuring everything stays constant) just under 4 years. My guess would be somewhere in the middle. The unions outlook doesn't take into consideration growth. For example the 5 145s that we are getting back from storage and other airlines. Also if more people leave for the majors. PIC is important but many FOs are hired at LCC and legacy carries. There are also 10+ year captains at the majority of regionals with thousands of PIC time and no call.