FlyingBulldog

Hi all,

Just got hired at a regional recently, and start training in a couple months. I'm about 140 hours shy of the 700 I need to start training (50 sim hours will be accomplished during training that can count towards total flight time), and I'm unlikely to fly more than 40 hours at my unit in the six or so months before I start training, so it looks like it'll be tight making the hours up. Luckily I've got access to a small plane for cheap time-building, but the fewer hours I have to pay for out of pocket, the better.

I have three logbooks, one that is purely civilian time, one that is military time exactly as it appears on the 781/HARM records, and one that is all my military flights using the FAA 1.1 definition of flight time (so it includes all the taxi time). I understand some airlines use a military conversion for the purpose of hiring selection, so I used the strictly military log times for Airline Apps (per the instructions, I didn't apply any conversion factor myself and entered it exactly as it is in the military records). The military conversions are just for the airline during hiring, and the FAA still uses no conversion factor on your military time when you show up for your R-ATP at the end of training, right? So I'm thinking I should plan to include my third logbook (military time logged the "civilian way") in the hours for my R-ATP and leave the purely military logbook at home. Does sound like it would present a problem, or has anyone done this? I wouldn't care except that its a significant number of hours (when my unit isn't flying and I'm paying for the rest of the hours).

Any additional wisdom is also appreciated, as always.

60av8tor

So I take it you have 560TT towards your mil R-ATP 750? I would definitely talk with the training department of the regional who has given you the CJO and clear things up. I'm familiar with 25 hours of sim time being used, but that is towards the requirements of 61.159 if required, not total flight time.

FlyingBulldog

61.159 says 100 hours - not 25 - of sim time can be counted towards the total time requirement as long as it was a part of certain training programs. The 25 hour max is for sim time to meet the 50 hour class flight time requirement.

My main question is whether an FAA examiner would decline to accept some flight time for an ATP just because it occurred in a military aircraft instead of civilian?

Grumble

If I was an examiner I would throw out your "converted" mil time that you included taxi time to. It's not how the military logs time and it's not what was certified in your official records. You're really rolling the dice on that one.

RazzorAPC

From day 1 keep an official FAA compliant civilian logbook during your military time, then you log EACH your military flights and civilian flights same as you would civiluan time (including taxi time). Then your logbook is your "official" flight time. That is the best way to do it. then you would just need to show your checkride/ aircraft rating forms from your military records (This serves as Endorsementds in your logbook) along with your official signed-by-you log book.

rickair7777

This should work fine.

Trying to apply a conversion factor for FAA purposes after-the-fact to time logged in the military fashion would probably not work out well.

But if you keep two books you should discuss it with airline management. You don't want to use civilian style time on an airline app where they are going to add a factor on top of it. But when you fill out an 8710 in training using civilian-style logging, those numbers will not match what was on your application. Just make sure they know in advance.

If you don't actually need the conversion for ATP mins, I would just stick with mil time the way it's logged in the mil. But it's OK (in fact it's a good idea) to keep two books just in case you need it.

FlyingBulldog

That's essentially what I'm talking about. There is nothing more or less "official" about a logbook you keep like this than a normal civilian logbook. The only difference would be the aircraft type in that column of the logbook. Just wondered if anyone else had done this with any success.

Yeah its a dice roll, just seeing if anyone else had tried this. I don't personally see an issue with it. Its not "converted," its actual. If I tried some voodoo like adding .2 or .3 for each sortie flown to the total flight time, that's where it would be questionable in my mind.

Adlerdriver

How does one get hired by an airline if they don't have enough time to get the required license?

Otterbox

It seems to be more common these days... as part of the CJO one of the contingencies is having completed the hours requirments prior to training.

I have a buddy who got picked up by a regional as part of a military transition program and his starting class is contingent Upon getting r-atp mins so he's flying circles for 5-8hrs a day until that happens and he gets to class up.

USMCFLYR

I thought so too, but I ran it by a former ASI, and a current *guru*, and they both said 'bring in logbook #1 and #3' (from your example Bulldog) and they would both accept it. I argued what you said Grumble, but they seemed to not care about how the military logs time and it is in you ur log book and they are signing it as official. Blew me out of the water.

Edit: I should have just said YES to RazzorAPC's post.