Dread Pirate

I know with Delta this has been a hot subject. I am filling out applications for multiple airlines and just trying to sort through all this to make sure I'm honest but not selling myself short. To caveat all this, I've never busted a Form 8 check ride. I've gone through multiple upgrades: MQT, FLUG, MCUG, IPUG, UIP, WIC, WIC IPUG. During WIC and IPUG I busted rides; at WIC, you'll pretty much bust every ride at least once, and probably a couple times depending on timeline. I don't have documentation anymore of which ones I "got to see again." What's the best way to answer the training failure question. These busts are for tactical execution (mostly BFM), and chalk debrief type things, not for being unable to fly an instrument approach or anything like that.

I've passed and done well in every upgrade I've been in, and probably have an average or slightly less busts in my life for a guy who is a WIC IP in my community. I feel like if I list every bust I've ever had it's going to look like a trend of training failures. In my community at least, busting these types of rides is the norm. Just looking for some advice.

navigatro

It is only a check-ride failure if it is on a Form 8.

Keep it simple.

TwinTandem

I agree. If it doesn't generate a Form 8 it isn't a checkride. IMHO.

Spike from flyi

If the FAA has a record of it, it's a bust; otherwise, if it doesn't say it on your DD214, it's none of their business.

TankerDriver

If it's not in your FEF or recording with the FAA, it never happened.

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C130driver

I thought Delta clarified their application to include UPT checkride failures? I agree, WIC training ride failures is a little ridiculous to ask for and I don't think airlines care about that..but at the same time, it would suck to be caught with your pants down.

DROCK

I have a failure in primary flight training safe for solo check ride. Only annotation is INCOMPLETE in my log book. My training record from back then doesn't exist. Does this constitute a check ride failure?

Hrkdrivr

This is a recurring question, take all the advice here with a grain of salt.

Send an email to the hiring department(s) and ask them. When I applied about 4 years ago, Delta said they wanted to know about all failures (UPT daily rides, UPT checks rides, etc) in the addendum, United said only Form 8 busts. I answered their questions accordingly. They never came up in the Delta interview, but I was ready to talk about them if they did. At Delta at least back then, my app wasn't automatically eliminated by answering "yes" to the question about training failures.

Be able to defend anything you put, or don't put, on your app.

Good luck.

Adlerdriver

If you want to roll the bones, chances are this advice will work.

Asking the airline directly (if possible) is probably the best advice. Having to discuss a bust for tactical execution or maybe the brief is pretty stupid at an airline interview - but it sounds like Delta wants that.

I disclosed my formation bust during UPT at my UAL interview and subsequent interviews. Sounds like current guidance is that UAL doesn't care.

The worst case scenario, however, is you end up across the table from another WIC graduate at an airline that does care. He knows it's practically impossible to get through that program without a bust. Better to play the game than being benched before you can get started.

Ewok

The new format for the training failures on the Delta application has been answered on RST Delta Facebook group and the Delta Pilot recruiting Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/deltapilotrecruiting/

You should list all UPT check ride busts, not daily flights, but any progress or phase checks would be included. Any progress or phase checks in any phase of training should also be included. Listing these failures will not stop you from getting an interview, I had 2 busts in UPT and listed them. We talked about them for 1-2 minutes during the interview.

From my short time at Delta I can say they are pretty forgiving if you make a mistake, own up to the mistake, learn from it and help others to NOT make the same mistake. That is the theme they want to hear about training failures in the interview. If you don't list the failures they will probably be able to see them in the paperwork you turn in, they have seen it all before and they will ask about any omissions. You need to scrub all your paperwork and make sure you list everything that looks like a training failure.

Good luck, I know it's confusing but this website, TPN, RST, and FB have helped me navigate the process.