There is absolutely nothing to be gained by not being 100% up front with everything that could be vaguely construed as a training failure -- even if reporting it is overly conservative.

Let's remember that for the most part these self-reporting requests on airline applications are honesty/integrity checks. You're not ruining your chances of getting an interview call by reporting that UPT Midphase Check bust when there's no way the airline could have otherwise found out about it if you didn't tell them.

Here's a dose of reality: the major airlines have (and continue to) hire guys with massive black marks on their records: civil arrests and infractions, military discipline like Art 15s, Class A accidents where pilots were found at fault, multiple Q3s, pilots grounded by FEBs and FNAEBs, etc. Real, no-kidding black marks.

If you're still worried about if you should or shouldn't list that UPT checkride bust, realize that the guys who listed all of the above stuff on their applications were hired at legacy airlines during this hiring spree of the last few years. Your random mistakes (e.g. the training failures in question in this thread) are pretty small potatoes compared to those black marks. Think about it.

Remember, the airlines are looking at the big picture, theoretically at that "whole person" concept. A couple of mistakes over the course of a career are expected. Even the major trip-ups where someone made a legitimate error in judgment are opportunities to further one's airmanship or personally improve, and the airlines fully recognize this.

Again, they're looking for honesty in a candidate, and they're looking for someone who has learned from their mistakes and are better aviators as a result of it.

That being said, trying to cover something up, or omitting something because you think it will make you look worse as an interviewee, will absolutely NOT be looked upon well if it is discovered. And, often, perception is reality: even if you weren't trying to intentionally hide something, the appearance of that could be just as bad. The potential cost of this is just too large to not be completely forthright and overly conservative in what you list on the app.

 

I think this advice is spot on. I have even heard of people being asked at interviews how they made it through training, and their subsequent flying career without a failure at some point. I have a TMAAT story ready to go just in case I get asked that question.

 

Delta addendum specifically says "stage/phase checks" etc so I added my T-38 UPT contact check failure.

I asked UAL pilot hiring if they wanted those and their answer was no, only actual Form 8 / FAA checkride failures.

Good Luck!

 

A legacy has hired someone with an FEB in their record? Wow, just WOW. I convened an FEB on a piling who was later terminated by a legacy, tho.

GF

 

Having known several of these guys I'm talking about, you might be surprised at some of the reasons and motivations that the AF has to convene FEBs. Don't forget that sometimes pilots are cleared by FEBs and go back to line flying, too.

The accusation isn't always the same as the finding.

That being said, these boards exist in the midst of other experience and accomplishments in a flying career. You have to assume that the rest of the resume/application of these folks was attractive enough to offset the stink of the FEB, regardless of the rationale or outcome.

 

I listed mine as well (mid phase contact bust in T-37 eons ago). Your UPT record (summary) is in your flying history report that you print/copy from the HARM office (for USAF) so you should definitely report these, they will see them and based on the updated questions it sounds like they know where to look. Best to be honest about it; not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

 

I was in the same boat as you. In my five airline applications, I listed all formal training busts: UPT, IFF, FTU, and WIC.

I was generic in the applications, but also ready to discuss details in the interview (although I sure as hell don't remember most of my many WIC busts). Interview invites to four airlines (i.e., did not seem to affect the calculus on getting an interview at any of these).

 

If this horse isn't dead, I think Hacker and those following have it right. List what you can remember if it's a mid-phase or category. In WIC, you bust a daily ride? So what. Who hasn't?! I'd lump that in with busting a daily ride in UPT. Surely it happens. Delta probably doesn't care. If it was a cert ride, that's probably something to fess up to. Be sure to keep a story about what you learned from that bust handy in case they ask. I told about a story where I busted a ride and what I learned. I spun the story in a comedic fashion that was self-deprecating and the panel had a chuckle about it for like 2 minutes straight. That was 2 less minutes I was being grilled.

 

Any chance you mind elaborating on the story and how you spun it to be funny? Some of us were unfortunately not gifted with a funny bone at birth....


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Got a beer and about 20-30 minutes?