Airline to ANG
01-01-2018, 06:58 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 66
Airline to ANG
Happy New Year, everyone.
I'm currently a first officer at a 121 regional and I'm giving some serious thought to applying to a guard unit nearby. Has anyone here joined the ANG after starting at the airlines, or am I crazy to even think of such a thing?
Some background -- I'm in my early 20s and have a 4-year non-aviation degree. After finishing college, I was in touch with a recruiter and had my ducks in a row to go to OTS and hopefully to UPT. Took the AFOQT (got a 97 on the pilot portion, similar percentiles on the other portions), TBAS, etc. Unfortunately, due to my dad becoming ill, I could not commit myself to the Air Force and had to withdraw from the process so I could stay closer to home. At the time, I had my private and instrument and worked to obtain my commercial and CFI certificates. I instructed my way to 1,500 hours and joined a regional in early 2017.
Here's the thing -- I have nothing bad to say about my job. I enjoy the flying and my co-workers. I'm compensated well. I've spoken to folks that I fly with and mainline guys (usually while I'm commuting in their jumpseats) who are retired AF or currently in the ANG about joining a guard unit. Some of them look at me like I'm absolutely nuts. Why, they ask, would I want to pump the brakes on what I've already got going? They ask why I would want to take mil leave for 2-3 years for initial training/seasoning, deployments, a pay cut, delaying a captain upgrade at my regional, and ultimately delaying a possible interview at a major airline?
Frankly, I have wanted to join the military since my last couple years of undergrad and would be especially humbled to be picked up by a guard unit to fly. Ultimately, I do not have my panties in a wad about getting to a major as soon as humanly possible and locking in my seniority number, as many do (not throwing stones, I know seniority is everything). I have (hopefully) 40+ years of flying in front of me, and the guard seems like a good way to serve while also working another job in the long-term.
Anyone care to comment? Open to advice.
I'm currently a first officer at a 121 regional and I'm giving some serious thought to applying to a guard unit nearby. Has anyone here joined the ANG after starting at the airlines, or am I crazy to even think of such a thing?
Some background -- I'm in my early 20s and have a 4-year non-aviation degree. After finishing college, I was in touch with a recruiter and had my ducks in a row to go to OTS and hopefully to UPT. Took the AFOQT (got a 97 on the pilot portion, similar percentiles on the other portions), TBAS, etc. Unfortunately, due to my dad becoming ill, I could not commit myself to the Air Force and had to withdraw from the process so I could stay closer to home. At the time, I had my private and instrument and worked to obtain my commercial and CFI certificates. I instructed my way to 1,500 hours and joined a regional in early 2017.
Here's the thing -- I have nothing bad to say about my job. I enjoy the flying and my co-workers. I'm compensated well. I've spoken to folks that I fly with and mainline guys (usually while I'm commuting in their jumpseats) who are retired AF or currently in the ANG about joining a guard unit. Some of them look at me like I'm absolutely nuts. Why, they ask, would I want to pump the brakes on what I've already got going? They ask why I would want to take mil leave for 2-3 years for initial training/seasoning, deployments, a pay cut, delaying a captain upgrade at my regional, and ultimately delaying a possible interview at a major airline?
Frankly, I have wanted to join the military since my last couple years of undergrad and would be especially humbled to be picked up by a guard unit to fly. Ultimately, I do not have my panties in a wad about getting to a major as soon as humanly possible and locking in my seniority number, as many do (not throwing stones, I know seniority is everything). I have (hopefully) 40+ years of flying in front of me, and the guard seems like a good way to serve while also working another job in the long-term.
Anyone care to comment? Open to advice.
01-01-2018, 08:11 PM
#3
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Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: FO
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by HarlsBarkley
Happy New Year, everyone.
I'm currently a first officer at a 121 regional and I'm giving some serious thought to applying to a guard unit nearby. Has anyone here joined the ANG after starting at the airlines, or am I crazy to even think of such a thing?
Some background -- I'm in my early 20s and have a 4-year non-aviation degree. After finishing college, I was in touch with a recruiter and had my ducks in a row to go to OTS and hopefully to UPT. Took the AFOQT (got a 97 on the pilot portion, similar percentiles on the other portions), TBAS, etc. Unfortunately, due to my dad becoming ill, I could not commit myself to the Air Force and had to withdraw from the process so I could stay closer to home. At the time, I had my private and instrument and worked to obtain my commercial and CFI certificates. I instructed my way to 1,500 hours and joined a regional in early 2017.
Here's the thing -- I have nothing bad to say about my job. I enjoy the flying and my co-workers. I'm compensated well. I've spoken to folks that I fly with and mainline guys (usually while I'm commuting in their jumpseats) who are retired AF or currently in the ANG about joining a guard unit. Some of them look at me like I'm absolutely nuts. Why, they ask, would I want to pump the brakes on what I've already got going? They ask why I would want to take mil leave for 2-3 years for initial training/seasoning, deployments, a pay cut, delaying a captain upgrade at my regional, and ultimately delaying a possible interview at a major airline?
Frankly, I have wanted to join the military since my last couple years of undergrad and would be especially humbled to be picked up by a guard unit to fly. Ultimately, I do not have my panties in a wad about getting to a major as soon as humanly possible and locking in my seniority number, as many do (not throwing stones, I know seniority is everything). I have (hopefully) 40+ years of flying in front of me, and the guard seems like a good way to serve while also working another job in the long-term.
Anyone care to comment? Open to advice.
I'm currently a first officer at a 121 regional and I'm giving some serious thought to applying to a guard unit nearby. Has anyone here joined the ANG after starting at the airlines, or am I crazy to even think of such a thing?
Some background -- I'm in my early 20s and have a 4-year non-aviation degree. After finishing college, I was in touch with a recruiter and had my ducks in a row to go to OTS and hopefully to UPT. Took the AFOQT (got a 97 on the pilot portion, similar percentiles on the other portions), TBAS, etc. Unfortunately, due to my dad becoming ill, I could not commit myself to the Air Force and had to withdraw from the process so I could stay closer to home. At the time, I had my private and instrument and worked to obtain my commercial and CFI certificates. I instructed my way to 1,500 hours and joined a regional in early 2017.
Here's the thing -- I have nothing bad to say about my job. I enjoy the flying and my co-workers. I'm compensated well. I've spoken to folks that I fly with and mainline guys (usually while I'm commuting in their jumpseats) who are retired AF or currently in the ANG about joining a guard unit. Some of them look at me like I'm absolutely nuts. Why, they ask, would I want to pump the brakes on what I've already got going? They ask why I would want to take mil leave for 2-3 years for initial training/seasoning, deployments, a pay cut, delaying a captain upgrade at my regional, and ultimately delaying a possible interview at a major airline?
Frankly, I have wanted to join the military since my last couple years of undergrad and would be especially humbled to be picked up by a guard unit to fly. Ultimately, I do not have my panties in a wad about getting to a major as soon as humanly possible and locking in my seniority number, as many do (not throwing stones, I know seniority is everything). I have (hopefully) 40+ years of flying in front of me, and the guard seems like a good way to serve while also working another job in the long-term.
Anyone care to comment? Open to advice.
I was in your shoes Not to long ago. I say Do it. If you are not picky about what type of plane you want to fly then I suggest you pick the area you want to settle down. For me it was the east coast. I knew eventually I wanted to go back and that’s what I did. No commute and I drive to both my airline gig and my squadron. Let me know if you can any question. Happy to help! Thank you for wanting to give back too.
Essayons
01-01-2018, 09:38 PM
#4
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Lots of regional guys get picked up by ANG units, so it isn't that unusual to do what you’re contemplating. I'm in the process of doing the same thing, but my situation is a little different than yours. And it isn't really a significant pay cut for you by my math. Regional FOs make $40k-$70k. Most regional CAs make $50k-$120k. 2-5 year (your demographic while you'd be on mil leave) regional CAs make $50-$90k, all of which is taxable, and your medical costs money as well. As an O-1 you'd make $3,108 base pay (taxable), then allowances that are all non-taxable: $260 in BAS, $1100 in BAH (Sheppard), and $125 flight pay. So you are only paying 12% tax on around $38k (~$30k after the deduction), but taking in around $18k tax free in allowances. So, first two years you'll take home around $50k, and probably $70k after you make O-2 with more than 2 years, and $90k as an O-3 over 4 years, again all with lower tax liability and medical costs than an airline job. After taxes/medical, your regional CA pay wouldn't be that much more. If the exact numbers are important to you, you can easily make a spreadsheet with the pay differences for each course of action to compare...most of those above figures are WAGs.
Where the real money difference comes is when you'd get picked up by a major in each scenario. You can make spreadsheets with various variables and make an educated guess as to how much each scenario will vary with lifetime earnings, retirement pay, medical, etc. But there are so many unpredictable variables, which make that a very difficult calculation. If you went into the military, you'll never know exactly when you'd get hired at a major as a straight civilian. Also, as an AF pilot, you will be significantly more marketable and a “top tier” candidate for DAL/AA/UAL/SWA/FDX/UPS. There are thousands of regional CAs out there…there are fewer mil pilots (and even fewer mil pilots with 121 experience). Maybe you’d fast track to a major from your regional, maybe not.
Do what you want to do…IMO the lifetime pay is a wash/impossible to determine a significant difference. There are benefits to being in the military that you can’t put a monetary value on (brotherhood/friendships, experiences/stories, pride, etc.). Sounds like you really want to do the ANG thing. How much would that suck to be one of the guys chatting to the former mil pilot guy you're flying with saying "yeah I wanted to be a military pilot, but didn't for X,Y,Z reasons” and at that point you’re too old and have to live with that regret. I've flown with a lot of guys who regret NOT doing the military flying thing, but I've never flown with anyone who regretted flying in the military. I know a guy who will be on 3rd year JetBlue pay going to UPT to fly fighters in the ANG. Sure it’s a pay cut, but where/when else do you get to fly fighters or do anything like it? Nothing you will ever do in life can compare to the experience/challenge/brotherhood of being a mil pilot…especially a fighter pilot.
Where the real money difference comes is when you'd get picked up by a major in each scenario. You can make spreadsheets with various variables and make an educated guess as to how much each scenario will vary with lifetime earnings, retirement pay, medical, etc. But there are so many unpredictable variables, which make that a very difficult calculation. If you went into the military, you'll never know exactly when you'd get hired at a major as a straight civilian. Also, as an AF pilot, you will be significantly more marketable and a “top tier” candidate for DAL/AA/UAL/SWA/FDX/UPS. There are thousands of regional CAs out there…there are fewer mil pilots (and even fewer mil pilots with 121 experience). Maybe you’d fast track to a major from your regional, maybe not.
Do what you want to do…IMO the lifetime pay is a wash/impossible to determine a significant difference. There are benefits to being in the military that you can’t put a monetary value on (brotherhood/friendships, experiences/stories, pride, etc.). Sounds like you really want to do the ANG thing. How much would that suck to be one of the guys chatting to the former mil pilot guy you're flying with saying "yeah I wanted to be a military pilot, but didn't for X,Y,Z reasons” and at that point you’re too old and have to live with that regret. I've flown with a lot of guys who regret NOT doing the military flying thing, but I've never flown with anyone who regretted flying in the military. I know a guy who will be on 3rd year JetBlue pay going to UPT to fly fighters in the ANG. Sure it’s a pay cut, but where/when else do you get to fly fighters or do anything like it? Nothing you will ever do in life can compare to the experience/challenge/brotherhood of being a mil pilot…especially a fighter pilot.
01-02-2018, 06:55 AM
#5
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,281
Sounds like you're a good fit. Also sounds like you'll regret it for a long things if you don't do it.
It's possible you'd get to a major a little faster by staying on the regional track full time, but the mil experience will make you more of a sure thing, with a predictable time line... as opposed to warming the regional bench and wondering why some people get called but others don't.
It's possible you'd get to a major a little faster by staying on the regional track full time, but the mil experience will make you more of a sure thing, with a predictable time line... as opposed to warming the regional bench and wondering why some people get called but others don't.
01-02-2018, 02:52 PM
#6
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
I have had three or four Regional/Major pilots as UPT students. Highest-time guy had 4500 hours and was a Capt.
They generally do very well, although if you are thinking of a fighter unit...sometimes the “caution to the wind” aspect of that kind of flying (split-second decisions in risky situations) is so counter-intuitive to airline flying, that prior experience can be a hindrence.
ALL of them would say they learned things they never dreamed of prior to mil flying.
I join the chorus and say do it!
They generally do very well, although if you are thinking of a fighter unit...sometimes the “caution to the wind” aspect of that kind of flying (split-second decisions in risky situations) is so counter-intuitive to airline flying, that prior experience can be a hindrence.
ALL of them would say they learned things they never dreamed of prior to mil flying.
I join the chorus and say do it!
01-02-2018, 04:15 PM
#7
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Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Sounds like you're a good fit. Also sounds like you'll regret it for a long things if you don't do it.
Rickair hits the nail on the head right there.
As far as fighters vs. heavies, I'm not set on either one, but the units that I'm interested in are either C130s or refueling wings. I totally get why some folks are dead set on fighters, but I don't have strong convictions about it.
01-03-2018, 06:31 AM
#8
Get's Every Day Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 1,858
Originally Posted by HarlsBarkley
Hey fellas, thanks a lot for the detailed and thoughtful responses. I greatly appreciate it and took them to heart.
Rickair hits the nail on the head right there.
As far as fighters vs. heavies, I'm not set on either one, but the units that I'm interested in are either C130s or refueling wings. I totally get why some folks are dead set on fighters, but I don't have strong convictions about it.
Rickair hits the nail on the head right there.
As far as fighters vs. heavies, I'm not set on either one, but the units that I'm interested in are either C130s or refueling wings. I totally get why some folks are dead set on fighters, but I don't have strong convictions about it.
01-25-2018, 04:51 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 146
Not to hijack the thread, but anyone know what a timeline would look like for someone similar to the original poster? I am in a similar boat, about to graduate UPT and go on to fly C-130s afterwards, but I am on a leave of absence from a regional airline. When I left the regional, I had about 300 hours of part 121 FO time, and overall have a little over 2,000 hours TT, mostly GA. I will go through C-130 training and then return for seasoning at my guard unit, but beyond that, I will be part time and will return to the regional airline. What should I focus on to be more marketable to the Big 3?
Thanks!
Thanks!
01-25-2018, 08:14 PM
#10
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,281
Originally Posted by nh2ri15
Not to hijack the thread, but anyone know what a timeline would look like for someone similar to the original poster? I am in a similar boat, about to graduate UPT and go on to fly C-130s afterwards, but I am on a leave of absence from a regional airline. When I left the regional, I had about 300 hours of part 121 FO time, and overall have a little over 2,000 hours TT, mostly GA. I will go through C-130 training and then return for seasoning at my guard unit, but beyond that, I will be part time and will return to the regional airline. What should I focus on to be more marketable to the Big 3?
Thanks!
Thanks!
You'll have both mil and 121 tickets punched, so it will come down to flight time, and upgrade (at either job). When you go back to the regional, fly as much as you can, and do what you have to do with the guard.
I would avoid things like voluntary 3-week guard TDY's which will net you nine hours of flight time. If there's plenty of flying either way, do the guard. Once you upgrade, focus on that until you get the other upgrade.
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