HornetTexaco

Hoping to use this space for former/current NFOs who are either at the majors, or trying to get there. Marine Corps/Air Force WSO-type brothers and sisters welcome.

If you are a former NFO (or similar) currently at the majors, could you please post a bit about your background, the route you took to land that dream job, and any other pertinent details you think would be helpful for those following in your footsteps.

If you are a hopeful, post some stats about yourself, your career, and how things are going for you.

Respectfully, I am not looking for a lecture on what flight times people should or should not be logging.

This should be a place for constructive suggestions, helping a fellow service member work toward their goals, and networking.

I'll start. Former S-3 guy, here. Had my multi-engine before joining the Navy. Went through the "Super NFO" program. Logged any military time that I had flight controls in front of me as either SIC or "Other" for my multi and total times.

I did NOT log a single minute of my time flying as Part 1 PIC, and I maintained an entirely separate logbook that was limited to military time with flight controls.

I have about 500 hours turbine Captain/PIC from a prior 121 job before leaving the industry for a non-flying career. I've been back at a regional as an FO for about a year now.

Approximate current stats:

ATP (unrestricted)
TT: 2500
ME: 2250
Jet: 1100
Tprop: 1100
Part 121: 1350
More than 1 PIC type-rating

I've had my apps in to the majors for about four months with no bites yet, and working on fine-tuning at this point.

Best of luck to all of us in our endeavors.

Mods, if we could keep this in the Majors section, I would appreciate it.

rickair7777

As requested, I'm not going to tell you what to log, the good news in civilian aviation is that you can legally log absolutely anything you want! It only becomes a problem if you try to use your logged time in a manner which the FAA or an employer doesn't agree with.

However... I would caution you (and others) that even though some backseaters (in certain airframes) have in the past logged mil stick time and used that time for ratings and job applications, today that party is pretty much over. Most airlines have decided that since they can't really quantify that time in a regulatory manner, they don't want anything to do with it.

With the FAA, I'd be very careful, just because some yokel at the FSDO let it slide doesn't mean it's kosher in Washington (and of course theirs is the only opinion that counts).

With employers, simply ask them what counts before you use it. If it's not clearly FAR or NATOPS rated pilot time, better ask.

There have been extensive, and totally inconclusive, debates on that topic here on APC. Here's one of them:
Restricted ATP for NFOs?

I know, fly with, and am friends with more than a couple NFO airline pilots. The common theme is that their career progression has been 95% civilian track. The military experience is icing on the cake, another box to check on the application, and proves that you can show up on time, shirt pressed, clean shaven. Plan accordingly. Same applies for any other non-pilot mil folks.

No can do. Majors forum is really for major airline pilots to talk about major airline stuff. Otherwise every teenage wannabe with a gofundmyflighttraining website, etc. would be clogging up the forum. The Mil forum is really the best place for this, plenty of us here.

BeatNavy

Restricted ATP for NFOs? I'm guessing you've read through this thread. If I was interviewing you and looking at your logbook (or even before that scoring your application), I'd have questions about how you, as a guy who is not a rated military pilot, logged any military pilot time in your civilian logbook, regardless of your civilian ratings.

Peacock

Lots of potential questions about logging pilot time when you’re not a pilot and logging SIC in a single piloted aircraft.

HornetTexaco

No, you’re actually just going to spend six paragraphs doing exactly that.

sonnycrockett

Wow...I hope you are trying to be funny.

hawgwild

Ok, I’ll bite...so what exactly is a “super NFO” program? Do they issue you cape with your wings?

UAL T38 Phlyer

It was a program from about 1996-2000 I think (I left in 98; I was an IP) where student NFOs flew their first 12 hops in the front seat of the T-34, learning takeoffs, landings, aerobatics, stalls, and spins. The concept was to familiarize them with a pilot’s perspective. It was a joint USN and USAF program.

But they did not solo.

After those 12 rides, they rode in the trunk.

As I understand it, they shut down the program because it cost too much money, and took almost as long to graduate as going to pilot training.

cow0man

Never shut down, syllabus similar to what you mentioned, but slightly more compact. Now they are training in the T-6. Squadrons are VT-4 and VT-10.

John Carr

Yes, but the guy in front STILL gets to make the "swoosh" noises.