JohnBurke

There are more issues than one to consider: the VA began this process. NOT the FAA.

The FAA began looking at the VA records for two purposes: one is aa failure to report. Another is conditions which do not meet the medical standard.

Failure to report is a no-go; there's nothing to argue. It's a regulatory violation and may very well result in revocation of the medical certificate falsification. It's a serious issue.

If one reports a condition, reporting does not make the condition acceptable. Taken to the extreme, if one were to report that one's brain had been removed, making that report does not make one medically fit. It simply means that one complied with the requirement to report. Reporting a condition that does not meet medical certification standards does not grant one a medical certificate.

Further, reporting that one has received disability benefits means that A) one has complied with the requirement to report receiving disability benefits; B) one may have a medical condition which meets medical standards ,and C) one may have a medical condition which requires further documentation to determine that one meets medical standards. This, in turn, leaves two possibilities: one meets the medical standard, or one does not.

One does NOT have a right to a medical certificate. Like a pilot certificate, issuance (and retention) is a privilege based on meeting the standards, and upon a determination by the agency charged by an Act of Congress to both make that determination, and to issue the certificate. Reporting a disability benefit is not a free pass to medical certification. It's doing one's legal duty. The FAA does have a right to determine fitness, and a responsibility to do so.

The FAA does NOT base it's decisions, or it's request for additional information, testing, data, etc, upon a military disability rating. The FAA bases it's decisions based on it's own criteria. Providing medical information to the FAA does not grant a medical certificate. If one provides medical information, or if it is obtained, and a determination is made that the airman applicant does not meet the standard, that's the FAA's call. The FAA makes this determination based not only on meeting the medical standard, but on the impact that the applicants condition will have on the applicant for the duration of the medical certificate: this IS the standard. It's not just how you are on the day you show up for the exam, but how you are expected to be, or could be reasonably be expected to be, for the duration of the certificate. This includes factors which may be external to the applicant.

A good example is the PTSD standard which is given by worksheet to the aviation medical examiner, which includes a series of questions for both the applicant, and for the examiner. A "no" answer to any of them, including additional criterial spelled out in notes after the questions, the aviation medical examiner must defer. Additionally, the AME may defer as he or she sees appropriate, and must consider not only the PTSD, but also the triggers which may impact that in the cockpit or going forward.

If one has been suicidal at some point, showing up for the medical exam does not mean one is granted the medical certification simply because one is not suicidal on the day of the exam. Simply because one does not kill one's self in the doctor's office does not mean that ones mental and emotional health isn't at risk going forward. Reporting that condition does not make one eligible.

Even if one has been issued a medical certificate, the FAA is not prohibited from re-visiting the condition or the applicant. "Previously Reported, No Change" is not a free pass any more than reporting the condition in the first place.

One is not entitled to a medical certificate.

rickair7777

While I always advocate full disclosure with the Fed, if somebody didn't notice that the form changed a few years ago, or maybe thought that the FAA didn't care about their 5% rating for hemorrhoids, the FAA may well just let it go with correction and a warning. Might be bad optics if they administratively torpedo of bunch of vets who are perfectly fit to fly, especially given the politics of the pilot shortage.

I would also not expect prosecution for trivial issues, where the defendant would plead honest mistake since even if the FAA wanted to, the DoJ won't bother with "De Minimus". The judge would probably throw it out anyway.

We'll find out soon enough.

For obvious grounding conditions which were not reported, yeah you're going to get all your tickets revoked, and the DoJ will set the threshold for what they will prosecute. DoJ, like all prosecutors, likes open-shut cases... best use of resources and maximizes their win/loss ratio. Prosecutors only try marginal cases if there's some political or public notoriety aspect. #MeToo is going to trial even if the DA thinks he can't win and the defendant is probably innocent. That way the jury lets the accused abuser off the hook, not the DA.

Profane Kahuna

That’s a lot of backpedaling and excuse making for the FAA.

The FAA is going after vets. The FAA is going after vets who disclosed everything. The FAA is going after vets who disclosed everything and complied with all requests for more info and legitimately obtained medical certificates.

I don’t claim it is a vast right wing (or left wing, or any persuasion) conspiracy biased against vets…..it’s just standard bureaucratic hubris and over reach.

I’m glad they are going after the handful of people (vets and civilians) who fail to report issues that are required to be reported. It makes us all safer.

But the process should not involve headlines that the FAA was investigating “thousands of vets for falsifying info” when that was an overblown and inaccurate number. The truth was closer to a few dozen.

JohnBurke

There's no jury. There's no DA. This is administrative law. The first opportunity to mount a defense, in enforcement action, is after the penalty has been decreed: under administrative law, one is declared guilty, then one may appeal. Some do not understand this. The FAA doesn't need to prosecute. The FAA takes enforcement action, and after the guilty verdict, and after the sentence, then one may appeal. Not before. The burden of proof falls to the applicant in the appeal process. Up until that point, the only contribution that the airman will make to his case is to give the FAA evidence and ammunition to use in the appeal process.

Under administrative law, one is presumed guilty, until proven innocent. This is not criminal or civil law, although it can move into both arenas.

For the airman who claims he is afraid to reveal a condition, for fear he loses his medical, this losing argument fails at the outset. I am not medically qualified, but am required to reveal my lack of qualification: I argue that I am afraid to reveal my disqualifying condition because I'm afraid of being disqualified. Circular, pointless. If one is medically fit, reveal it. If one is not medically fit and conceals a disqualifying condition, then there's nothing unfair about an investigative process that uncovers that deception and ultimately revokes the medical certification.

rickair7777

Yes there is, for the criminal component of lying on the 8500. The FAA can't send anyone to prison for five years, that's DoJ, and Jury.

That's all true. If you didn't check a box which you should have, then they *can* just shred all of your certs, and ask questions later.

I speculate that they won't emergency revoke 5,000 pilot certs without doing a little digging first.

I also speculate that they won't revoke certs if somebody neglected to a report a trivial medical item which would have no impact on fitness to fly.

But as you say, they could do anything they want. I would not care to be one of the guys losing sleep over this, even with trivial disabilities.

ugleeual

Hopefully the government finds all these violations and takes the appropriate actions… it’s fraud plain and simple. I’m a vet and hate reading this crap.

Excargodog

Last time I checked - and it’s been a few years - the FAA physical standards people were 80% ex military and most of the docs ex military flight surgeons. For that matter, a lot of the federal air surgeons have historically been ex military.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...of%20Aerospace

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...n%20(%20FAA%20).


These are not the sort of people that will go after their fellow veterans over trivia. I’d you didn’t report your 10% disability for flat feet you are likely pretty safe. Your 100% for seizure disorder, uncontrolled, not so much.

Profane Kahuna

Well, that’s the main beef about this publicity campaign. The FAA sent nasty to letters to thousands of vets accusing them of lying and/or failing to disclose.

Then, FAA goes to the media with all the doom and gloom about thousands of vets under investigation.

But the response from 99.9% of the vets was “I already disclosed everything”. The response from the FAA was “Ok thank you, nevermind”.

The disparity between what they told the media and what actually happened is enormous.


Source…..AMAS

Excargodog

You’ve not often dealt with providing factual information to the media I would guess. They will screw up prepared copy that you give them permission to quote verbatim. They are neither our best nor our brightest as a group, even when they aren’t trying to sell newspapers and/or maximize the clicks on their articles. And anything remotely technical or specialized? They could screw up the working parts of an anvil.

Armyguy

So all these so called letters, if you havent gotten one yet you are good to go?

I did report everything and the FAA pretty much doesn't give a sh$t. There are one eyed pilots running around and pilots with no limbs who have been cleared to fly. Doubt they will ever care about my knee pain.