Well who woulda thunk..?
06-25-2021, 06:20 PM
#11
TakeoffOK!!!
Joined APC: Apr 2021
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by hindsight2020
...And then there's those of us Andy Dufresne types who never spent a day in Active Duty, while carving ourselves a tunnel to an Active Duty Retirement in the backdrop, for the relative low price of having a willingness to not promote, spend some time in crappy CONUS duty stations, and "be just a pilot". 
My family ain't starving either.
Sure, there's been opportunity costs to it, and the first 5 years were no picnic and considerably lagged in pay and benefits compared to AD bubbas. But considering airline "flying" didn't and still doesn't motivate me vocationally, it really was a no-brainer for me coming out of dead-end academia and engineering work I had no intention of applying professionally.
But that's also why I try to stay out of these AD-centering conversations. I recognize my career experience is enough of an outlier to be irrelevant to the AD discussion.
I will also plug this forum as a very consequential place, where I met folks who were instrumental in getting me pointed in the right direction hiring wise, and who have become real world acquaintances, co-workers and friends. This in spite of much of the otherwise high noise-to-signal ratio that permeates the airline kvetching on here otherwise.
Cheers!
My family ain't starving either. Sure, there's been opportunity costs to it, and the first 5 years were no picnic and considerably lagged in pay and benefits compared to AD bubbas. But considering airline "flying" didn't and still doesn't motivate me vocationally, it really was a no-brainer for me coming out of dead-end academia and engineering work I had no intention of applying professionally.
But that's also why I try to stay out of these AD-centering conversations. I recognize my career experience is enough of an outlier to be irrelevant to the AD discussion.
I will also plug this forum as a very consequential place, where I met folks who were instrumental in getting me pointed in the right direction hiring wise, and who have become real world acquaintances, co-workers and friends. This in spite of much of the otherwise high noise-to-signal ratio that permeates the airline kvetching on here otherwise.
Cheers!
06-28-2021, 09:14 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 459
Originally Posted by jaxsurf
I’d wager that not a single one of those people regrets joining the Air Force in the first place, even if they were ready to get out at the end.
If you have the chance/opportunity to fly fighters, it’s a no-brainer: do it. Flying fighters is an incomparable experience that only a fraction of the earth’s population will ever have, so don’t pass it up if given the slightest chance.
Some civilian pilots hate that airlines like hiring fighter guys, but they simply don’t know what they don’t know.
Flying transports, helos, whatever else, will also see you doing tons of cool ****, so if interested in the Reserves, don’t pass those up either. While these may not be as dynamic as flying a fighter, the flying is still like nothing in the 121 world, and the experience (ready room camaraderie, etc) will be a great one.
Mil flying of any type is likely more challenging, exciting, interesting, scary, difficult, than 99% of what you’ll probably see in the 121 world, so it’s worth experiencing, even if you’ll be happy to move on from it.
But regardless of what you fly, you are an officer first, with everything that that entails, as everyone previously mentioned.
If you have the chance/opportunity to fly fighters, it’s a no-brainer: do it. Flying fighters is an incomparable experience that only a fraction of the earth’s population will ever have, so don’t pass it up if given the slightest chance.
Some civilian pilots hate that airlines like hiring fighter guys, but they simply don’t know what they don’t know.
Flying transports, helos, whatever else, will also see you doing tons of cool ****, so if interested in the Reserves, don’t pass those up either. While these may not be as dynamic as flying a fighter, the flying is still like nothing in the 121 world, and the experience (ready room camaraderie, etc) will be a great one.
Mil flying of any type is likely more challenging, exciting, interesting, scary, difficult, than 99% of what you’ll probably see in the 121 world, so it’s worth experiencing, even if you’ll be happy to move on from it.
But regardless of what you fly, you are an officer first, with everything that that entails, as everyone previously mentioned.
06-28-2021, 08:20 PM
#13
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Posts: 27
If you have the chance/opportunity to fly fighters, it’s a no-brainer: do it. Flying fighters is an incomparable experience that only a fraction of the earth’s population will ever have, so don’t pass it up if given the slightest chance.
AGREE WITH TOTALLY
Some civilian pilots hate that airlines like hiring fighter guys, but they simply don’t know what they don’t know.
AGREE but having been on both sides of the coin I would much rather hire a 737 guy or regional guy for an airline job than fighter pilot. One does not correlate with the other so much. Airlines hire them because they are a known quality. But I don’t agree with that at all. Civilians make much better civilian pilots than a lot of mil guys do.
AGREE WITH TOTALLY
Some civilian pilots hate that airlines like hiring fighter guys, but they simply don’t know what they don’t know.
AGREE but having been on both sides of the coin I would much rather hire a 737 guy or regional guy for an airline job than fighter pilot. One does not correlate with the other so much. Airlines hire them because they are a known quality. But I don’t agree with that at all. Civilians make much better civilian pilots than a lot of mil guys do.
06-29-2021, 07:19 AM
#14
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,271
Originally Posted by fatjoetoes
AGREE but having been on both sides of the coin I would much rather hire a 737 guy or regional guy for an airline job than fighter pilot. One does not correlate with the other so much. Airlines hire them because they are a known quality. But I don’t agree with that at all. Civilians make much better civilian pilots than a lot of mil guys do.
1) Basic flying ability is a known LCD.
and more importantly...
2) Whole person. Fighter pilots have succeeded and thrived in a competitive environment. A 2500 hour RJ FO will be more familiar with airline SOP and checklists than a fighter guy... but he might be a slacker and/or have personaliy/social/leadership defects. Hard to graduate from the mil and be a defective slacker (not impossible, but pretty hard)... true of all mil aviation but even more so fighters.
06-29-2021, 08:33 AM
#15
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Airlines don't hire them to fly like mav and ice. They hire them because...
1) Basic flying ability is a known LCD.
and more importantly...
2) Whole person. Fighter pilots have succeeded and thrived in a competitive environment. A 2500 hour RJ FO will be more familiar with airline SOP and checklists than a fighter guy... but he might be a slacker and/or have personaliy/social/leadership defects. Hard to graduate from the mil and be a defective slacker (not impossible, but pretty hard)... true of all mil aviation but even more so fighters.
1) Basic flying ability is a known LCD.
and more importantly...
2) Whole person. Fighter pilots have succeeded and thrived in a competitive environment. A 2500 hour RJ FO will be more familiar with airline SOP and checklists than a fighter guy... but he might be a slacker and/or have personaliy/social/leadership defects. Hard to graduate from the mil and be a defective slacker (not impossible, but pretty hard)... true of all mil aviation but even more so fighters.
Civilian guys thrive in civilian life. So your saying all fighter guys are great leaders? Again your point is moot.
06-29-2021, 03:38 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 2,297
Originally Posted by HeyHairWoYaGoin
As a civilian ATP interested in the air force reserves… why is the air force so unpopular? This is a common theme I keep hearing over and over again - pilots leaving the military for the airlines. There are so many articles about this.
But why? Why is there a shortage?
But why? Why is there a shortage?
So yes, absolutely do pursue a reserve or guard job, fighters, heavy’s…doesn’t matter, it’s worth it.
06-30-2021, 06:02 AM
#17
Get's Every Day Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 1,858
Originally Posted by fatjoetoes
I’ve know personally a lot of military guys that have terrible CRM, descent planning, ability to manage a flight deck. Stick and rudder is only one component.
Civilian guys thrive in civilian life. So your saying all fighter guys are great leaders? Again your point is moot.
Civilian guys thrive in civilian life. So your saying all fighter guys are great leaders? Again your point is moot.
PS...Don't feed the troll
06-30-2021, 06:52 AM
#18
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,271
Originally Posted by fatjoetoes
I’ve know personally a lot of military guys that have terrible CRM, descent planning, ability to manage a flight deck. Stick and rudder is only one component.
There are good and bad in both, the military just screens them better than the regionals, and fighters *on average* is just another layer of screening. A military resume also has more "hints" on that person's career progression, skill, and motivation... a regional pilot could go years without any significant career milestones but in the mil a long stretch of nothing tells you that person is getting skipped over and others are stepping up in his place.
I'm not a fighter guy but I've worked with a whole bunch of fighter, non-fighter, and non-aviator types over a very long mil career. I'm just explaining why some airlines like that package. But that sword cuts both ways... some airlines don't, at least one or two ULCC at one point specifically required 5000 hours which excluded almost all fighter pilots (my college roommate is a 55 y/o active duty fighter pilot Admiral and he has maybe 4000 hours).
The dregs of corporate/135 is also known to prefer civilians... in a bar one night a 135 owner/DO/CP who knew some of my pilot friends ended up at our table. He stated he wouldn't hire mil guys because they'd get uptight if he wanted to do a line of coke on a layover.
06-30-2021, 01:58 PM
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2021
Posts: 97
I wouldn't mind flying fighters part time, and already have mil aviation experience. Does it count if I identify as 30 years old, or younger? Seems discriminatory and oppressive if they label me by my birth age and not the age I identify as. #triggered
06-30-2021, 02:11 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,091
Originally Posted by RIPV3
I wouldn't mind flying fighters part time, and already have mil aviation experience. Does it count if I identify as 30 years old, or younger? Seems discriminatory and oppressive if they label me by my birth age and not the age I identify as. #triggered
I’d like to do it again for round 2
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
