Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Career Builder > Military
Debunking Russian capabilities >

Debunking Russian capabilities

Notices
Military Military Aviation

Debunking Russian capabilities

Old 03-20-2022, 08:37 AM
  #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
joepilot's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 747 Captain (Ret,)
Posts: 800
Default Debunking Russian capabilities

I just read an article in yesterdays USA Today that said that Russia's Kinzhal missile had a range of 1250 miles, and a speed of Mach 10. I personally don't believe these numbers, (consider the source) but can anybody confirm or deny these numbers? If true, the Russians know what they have, so it would not be releasing classified information.

Joe
joepilot is offline  
Old 03-20-2022, 09:17 AM
  #2  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,100
Default

Originally Posted by joepilot View Post
I just read an article in yesterdays USA Today that said that Russia's Kinzhal missile had a range of 1250 miles, and a speed of Mach 10.
It is NOT a hypersonic cruise missile... that would be bleeding edge tech.

It's just a hypersonic BALLISTIC missile. We have thousands of those, with some ranging 8,000 miles. ICBM re-entry vehicles come in at speeds of mach 20+. Space shuttle re-entered at mach 25.

A ballistic missile quickly leaves the earth's atmosphere, so it can accelerate without any pesky air drag... when it comes back down, it's hauling arse.

Kinzal is a just a MRBM, capable of being nuclear armed. In this case they're using conventional warheads. Conventional warheads do require a more accurate guidance system.

Those numbers are right in the ballpark for an MRBM.


It's not a great idea to be tossing any sort ballistic missiles around Europe though... you can't track the impact point until well after launch, so you don't know if it's Kiev... or Berlin. You also have no idea what kind of warhead is on it. Somebody could end up at DEFCON 1 that way.



Originally Posted by joepilot View Post
I personally don't believe these numbers, (consider the source) but can anybody confirm or deny these numbers? If true, the Russians know what they have, so it would not be releasing classified information.
Actually it would be, the fact that we actually *know* their capabilities gives away the fact that we acquired it surreptitiously, so that endangers sources and means. They can certainly indict you based on that.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 03-20-2022, 10:31 AM
  #3  
Perennial Reserve
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,409
Default



https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...in-kaliningrad



GOOGLE EARTHThe reported range
Here is a month old article about it.
Excargodog is offline  
Old 03-20-2022, 05:55 PM
  #4  
All is fine at .79
 
TiredSoul's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,046
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
It is NOT a hypersonic cruise missile... that would be bleeding edge tech.

It's just a hypersonic BALLISTIC missile. We have thousands of those, with some ranging 8,000 miles. ICBM re-entry vehicles come in at speeds of mach 20+. Space shuttle re-entered at mach 25.







Actually it would be, the fact that we actually *know* their capabilities gives away the fact that we acquired it surreptitiously, so that endangers sources and means. They can certainly indict you based on that.
It appears the claimed numbers are straight from Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-47M2_Kinzhal
TiredSoul is offline  
Old 03-20-2022, 07:38 PM
  #5  
Perennial Reserve
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,409
Default

Originally Posted by TiredSoul View Post
It appears the claimed numbers are straight from Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-47M2_Kinzhal
Which doesn’t necessarily mean they are either right or wrong.We claimed back in 2014 that Russian IRBMs had violated the treaty prohibiting missiles with ranges of 500-5500 kilometers. A 1250 kilometer range - especially if fired at altitude - would not be all that surprising. The basic ground launched version carried a nominal 490 km range for a one ton warhead. A less accurate export version was determined to have a 300 kilometer angle.

Iskander (SS-26 Stone) Short-Range Ballistic Missile | Military-Today.com
Excargodog is offline  
Old 03-20-2022, 10:11 PM
  #6  
Perennial Reserve
 
Excargodog's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,409
Default

Originally Posted by TiredSoul View Post
It appears the claimed numbers are straight from Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-47M2_Kinzhal
Did a little research. Given the missile has a range of 490 km as a ground launched missile and the MiG-31 can do Mach 2.8 at 70,000 feet where the air pressure is a very small fraction of sea level pressure (0.61 PSI vs 14.7 PSI) so you are generating the same thrust with an added Mach 2.8 velocity and far less air resistance, actually getting to Mach 10 and going somewhat less than three times as far ballistically seems pretty easily possible.

Nor is dramatically increasing the capability of a rocket by launching it from a fighter aircraft without precedent.

https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Vi...llite-missile/

In Sept 1985 the US used an ASAT ASM-135 A to hit a satellite in low Earth orbit (350 miles high) launched from an F-15A doing just under Mach 1 from about 35.000 feet. That missile reached a maximum velocity of 15,000 mph - very nearly orbital velocity. In the last 37 years it would seem strange if the Russians couldn’t have matched or exceeded that performance. They are fairly competent with rockets. They’ve been took the first US astronaut up to the ISS for NASA in a Soyuz launch in 1995 and have been doing so pretty consistently since the last US space shuttle was decommissioned 11+ years ago.
Excargodog is offline  
Old 03-23-2022, 02:57 PM
  #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,224
Default

Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
Did a little research. Given the missile has a range of 490 km as a ground launched missile and the MiG-31 can do Mach 2.8 at 70,000 feet where the air pressure is a very small fraction of sea level pressure (0.61 PSI vs 14.7 PSI) so you are generating the same thrust with an added Mach 2.8 velocity and far less air resistance, actually getting to Mach 10 and going somewhat less than three times as far ballistically seems pretty easily possible.

Nor is dramatically increasing the capability of a rocket by launching it from a fighter aircraft without precedent.

https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Vi...llite-missile/

In Sept 1985 the US used an ASAT ASM-135 A to hit a satellite in low Earth orbit (350 miles high) launched from an F-15A doing just under Mach 1 from about 35.000 feet. That missile reached a maximum velocity of 15,000 mph - very nearly orbital velocity. In the last 37 years it would seem strange if the Russians couldn’t have matched or exceeded that performance. They are fairly competent with rockets. They’ve been took the first US astronaut up to the ISS for NASA in a Soyuz launch in 1995 and have been doing so pretty consistently since the last US space shuttle was decommissioned 11+ years ago.
I can assure you the Mig31 can’t do Mach 2.8 at 70000 feet lugging that missile around. In fact carriage limits might well limit the aircraft to subsonic speeds and a Q limit. I would guess probably 1.2 at 50,000 might be ballpark.
sailingfun is online now  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
iahflyr
United
14
03-13-2022 01:01 PM
Jack Bauer
Safety
25
05-17-2012 05:58 AM
Jesse
Foreign
2
12-07-2011 02:54 PM
stoki
Hangar Talk
26
08-21-2008 06:21 PM
ToiletDuck
Hangar Talk
22
02-14-2008 05:30 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices