From the 11 Feb AF Times: "The service anticipates about 60% of the 870 eligible pilots will take the bonus." That's according to Lt Col $$$, chief of the rated force policy branch at AF HQ. However, my very un-official survey here at Base XXX shows 0 bonus takers out of 5 eligible that I know well enough to ask. Not quite 60%. Thoughts?

 

well, back when i was in a viper squadron i knew many a dude to say one thing to a bro's face, but another to the DO/CC.

 

I agree with MAGNUM. I don't know what it is, but a lot of young dudes talk about the AF like it's pure pain. I don't totally get it. Even dudes 1-2 years into their first fighter tour are plotting their exit. It should be the absolute time of their lives! They complain about things like they are getting screwed somehow, but life in fighters ain't all that different than it was when I was a young pup...except for the threat of a UAV assignment (which sucks, I agree). Maybe it's just that I'm old and my perspective has changed, but I'd trade places with many of those dudes in a heartbeat. I think maybe the future in fighters is just so uncertain that it stresses dudes out.

I didn't get out because I hated it. Not at all. I loved it. I just needed some more stability than I felt my future in the AF held. Now I'm in the airlines where the very last adjective I'd use to describe my life is "stable" and my stress level about the future has gone through the roof.

On the bonus...it used to just be a financial carrot to keep dudes in when the airlines were paying a fortune and had amazing retirement plans. Now, I don't think many dudes stay in for the bonus...Not when it takes years and years and years just to get back to the same pay you make in the military without the bonus. The financial carrot in pay and retirement is already there without the bonus. Dudes are staying or going for much different reasons than money.

 

I dont' some will change their minds, or possibly lied right off the bat; but currently no one here is juming up and down saying it's the deal of the century (at least not out loud).

 

It all comes down to leadership, leadership, leadership. Many of today's 'leaders' are not leaders. CGOs and young FGOs don't look up the chain and see people they admire, or want to emulate. Many commanders are spineless yes men that bat for themselves and not their people.

I know MANY of my peers that got picked up for major with an IDE slot, evaluators, and up for the bonus, who are bailing in droves. That should really send out some signals, but I'm afraid those signals wont be received to bring about any constructive change in the near future.

 

I don't know, even at the worst of C17 times of 01-03 when guys were getting out in droves--plenty still stayed in. I heard the same complaints, but guys stayed.

And I got to say as bad as it was--when they lifted stop loss one squadron lost every EP--still doesn't match what rentention was like as a UPT IP in late 90s. At Laughlin the bonus take rate was single digit (they wouldn't tell us an actual percentage for some reason). More than that took it at McChord.

It's hard to tell what it's like now, I'm sure there's a way to make the numbers lie but looking at what AFPC puts out, sure seems like quite a few stay in. In my last assignment, more guys stayed than left. 60% seems believeable to me.

Just my perspective.

 

I'll echo the comments about young guys seeming to be sour on the whole affair early on in the process. That surprises me, since I thought my first fighter squadron tour was incredible...definitely much better times than my 2nd time around as a FGO!

Anyway, I'm not hearing anything outrageous in the F-15E circles about guys taking or not taking the bonus. Guys who you thought were going to stay in are, and guys who you thought were getting out still are.

I find it interesting, though, how many guys are getting out that haven't really taken the time to research the airline biz and don't have a current pulse on what hiring and pay is currently like. Several of them that I know personally still think that pay is pre-9/11 and think they'll be able to walk into the airline of their choice and get hired.

Either way...the bonus doesn't really influence people to stay in these days. It's more of a bennie for people who were going to stay in all ready. For those who want to leave, even a bonus that is $40K or $50K wouldn't keep them in, since QOL is that big of a driver for people to separate.

 

Add to that the micro-management and attention to detail in the WRONG areas.
I have seen OG/CCs and MAJCOM/CCs disecting and asking questions about individual LOCAL training sorties..(they get the ACs post-flight summary) and why the % was this, etc. A 3 star asking what a Capt did on a local sortie? Then you get yelled at while deployed, buy a loser E9 who has never deployed, because you have the fleece liner from your Gortex on........

and the list goes on and on. But Leadership is lacking in the above mentioned areas.

 

Agreed with all, but I don't think any of this is a recent phenomenon. There have been great leaders and sh*tty leaders for as long as there have been leaders.

A year or so ago, there was a dissertation posted on a bulletin board in my squadron. It was a brilliant rant about sh*tty leadership, horrible shoeclerks, dudes jumping ship left and right, how no one at the top "got it", doom and gloom for the future, etc. It was written by some dude named Captain Keys and I couldn't figure out who that was.

Turns out it was written 25 years ago by the very recently retired Gen Ron Keys, former ACC/CC, when he was a captain.

One of my theories is: dudes have worked for a long, long time to get to the top of the mountain...getting a pilot slot, competing throughout UPT, going through the B-course and MQT, working toward upgrades. Working toward/achieving difficult goals is FUN, at least to me. There's a tremendous sense of accomplishment as you climb each step and there seemed to be always another big step in front of you. All of a sudden, dudes find themselves at or near the top of the mountain and the perspective changes. They no longer have a clear and tangible GOAL that they are working toward (if they never cared about being a commander). I found myself there and it's a strange place to be.

For many years, I worked toward these goals and I finally achieved them all. Only then did I really look forward to my "career" in the AF and the challenges/goals ahead didn't motivate me like all my previous goals. From the "top of the mountain" or the pinnacle of all the goals I had set from the time I was a teenager, it looked like it was all downhill from there...perspective. And then the grass starts looking greener on the other side of the fence.

The thing is, I don't think many dudes REGRET joining the AF and going to pilot training or anything along their path before they get out. If you've ever been a UPT IP or a B-course IP, you've likely looked at your students and saw how fired up they were and how much they had ahead of them and said/thought "I'd trade places with you in an instant"...and I would to this day. It's just that once you reach all of your goals, it's difficult to figure out where to go from there.

 

Great perspective TBone.