A few of my buds became FAIP's and were at CBM from 88-90 and they said it was very difficult to wash a stud out during that timeframe. I was in 141's and every pilot I knew was hired by 3 airlines before he seperated, and that was when the Air Force started offering incentives like the pilot bonus and the leather jackets. As you well know its all about the timing!!
Vito

 

I was a student at CBM during '88 and we lost 50% of my class. I FAIP'ed there from 89-93 and towards 91-92 time frame it became the kindler, gentler UPT.

VITO's right..it is all about the timing!

 

I had heard this same thing - that IP time was highly desired. I hope you are right.

Of course you are speaking of the "heavy" world here. FAIPing instead of being single seat just gives you that IP time but you're still building that PIC time.

Do you mean to convey in this sentence that no FAIPs actually stay in the AF or that they typically get out at their first opportunity?

USMCFLYR

 

Thanks again for all the replies. This info is priceless.

I'm about 99% sure I would like to FAIP and I think I'm going to go ahead and tell my IP's my desire to FAIP. I've heard it's almost like an interview process after you let them know you want to FAIP in that a lot of IP's will come talk to you about it and try and get to know you to see if they would like to have you apart of their squadron.

Ultimately I'm still unsure whether I would like to go T-6's or T-1's, but I'm leaning more towards T-6's because I think I would enjoy teaching phase II more. To answer someone's question earlier I DEFINITELY do want to teach and feel like I could make a really good IP. If I were just doing this for the airlines I would definitely pick T-1's for the multi time, but I honestly feel like I would enjoy teaching Phase II more and besides I'll have plenty of time in my MWS to get that multi time. We'll see though. I've got some time before I need to decide. Thanks again!

 

T-6... hands down.

 

I enjoyed flying the T-1 as a student, but even then I'd look over at the IP and think the job looked boring as sh!t.

My feelings haven't changed really. I loved flying the Tweet and will quite likely go take a turn in the 6, which looks like even more fun. Teaching primary is where it's at (for me). When the class starts they can't even find the jet on the ramp, in roughly 4 months they're solo on your wing. Dollar rides were fun, initial solo was fun, some other stuff enjoyable, but nothing quite gives you that feedback on your instructor skills like letting a dude fly just off your wing with no one in his jet to save your life.

 

I have a question that no one has addressed yet. I see alot of people talking about instructing in T-6s or T-1s, but very little about instructing in the RTUs. Are those tours desired in the AF? Generally speaking, the jet guys in the USN/USMC did not want to go to the primary training squadrons in the past and fly the T-34 or T-6s in the future. A lot of helo guys who wanted fixed wing time prior to getting out, or multi-engine guys who didn't instruct in the multi-engine training squadrons, taught in the primary squadrons. One of my best friends in taking command of a Primary Training squadron in a few months and I know that he is recruiting jet guys into his squadron - partly in an attempt to set up his squadron to become the first T-6 flight training squadron. Btw - jet guys did like to get into the NFO training squadron. It was jet time, all front seat time, they flew low levels and some basic BFM and were based in Pensacola, FL!

In another thread there was discussion about life experiences, flying experiences, etc.... when a civilian goes to ATP and goes from no flying to CFII/MEI in 90 days and then is instructing. The point was that this person has never flown outside of the training environment from their home base, have possibly never flown in really bad weather or shot other instrument approaches than the local ones to home field, etc...... This person doesn't bring any of the "real life" experience to the table with them to pass on to the students.

When I finished my ratings in college and could have stayed around for another semester to get my CFII/MEI I didn't want to because I didn't feel that I had enough experience to teach - although I know that instructing is the basic way to build time and experience in the civilian side of aviation. Once I got into the military and learned of the SERGRAD/FAIP program I understood that it seemed to work well - but that same thought process stayed with me - I'd rather have that instructor who has been out in the "fleet" and has some real world experiences to bring to the brief/flight.

Having brought this up to quite a few SERGRADs in the past I understand that they are put through a good IUT syllabus and start off instructing in the basic stages initially and having just gone through the process themselves they have a good idea of what to instruct. Hummmmmmm.......
I still question it; I mean that SERGRAD teaching TacForm has all of a few flights himself even doing TacForm before he is teaching it. The experience question raises its head again in my mind.

Plus - I didn't initially join the military to instruct - I joined the military to get out into the operational fleet - to get into the fight now days. Looking at the responses in this thread it would seem that I am in the minority.

In the end - I know that the programs work. I've seen lots of SERGRADs/FAIPs go on to successful careers and I know that my former civilian instructors are flying professionally - so it must all work out in the end.
Just one person views from the outside looking in.

USMCFLYR

 

We are starting to see jet guys getting pushed to t-34's when they check in. Needless to say, they are highly upset. Like everywhere else, they are having manpower issues.

I'm not sure about how Meridian does business but SERGRAD's hardly ever teach phase II. Every once in a while you might have one instruct WEPS or ONAV's which I don't agree with. On the other hand, I don't agree with E2/C2 or P-3 guys teaching it either.

 

From what I've seen flying various AMC aircraft, FAIPs fall into 2 categories:

1: those who are good pilots, willing to learn and can take instruction in a CREW aircraft from both officer and ENLISTED (something not often taught in AETC)
2: those who think they're great, find every opportunity to exhibit their "knowledge" and skills at the expense of learning, and fail to listen to senior enlisted loadmasters/engineers (a good way to loose your bags in Uganda while on a 3 week trip -- oops).

Basically it will fall on your personality that will make or break you in the real world (Non-AETC). I'm sure the FAIP gig is fun and has it's perks and I'll take some flak for my next comment. But, I see that as a high school kid who still lives with his parents after graduation. Sure, sticking with what you know is easy and flying the same plane after graduation with the same mission day in and day out has it's benefits, but until you actually execute the missions which the AF is designed around, it doesn't seem very gratifying. Stop trying to predict the future. If you stay as a FAIP or go to another aircraft - at the end of 10 years you should have more than enough hours to have a good resume for any airline job should you decide to go that route. Whatever you do, do not burn bridges, and don't be a Dick. The students you have a as a FAIP will be your aircraft commanders/instructors/examiners in your next life. You may make it to IP in your next jet in just 6 months, but credibility in the jet is a whole different issue--enlisted personnel will can make or break you regardless of your level of effort as a pilot. Staying at a UPT base for 4 years you will have a lot of students and they will remember YOU if you give them reason to.

 

You have some good points there. What will make you a good MWS pilot isn't being a FAIP, it's being a good pilot. If you're an A-hole/moron FAIP, odds are you be the same kind of MWS guy. That I've definately seen.

You have an excellent point about lack of enlisted in AETC. Personally, I've never seen a problem with it but I'm sure it's happened.

True statement that your students will follow, and remember you. I had a bud run into a FAIP he had bad memories of. FAIP was inprocessing, bud ran training. I've no idea how, but he managed to get this guy back through chem defense training...the one where you take your mask off in a tent full of CS. Seven years after I left AETC I walk into new squadron DOV to drop off my FEF, the two EPs in there were two guys I gave Tweet checkrides to. I didn't remember them, you can believe they remembered me. I asked them if I'd been a d!ck to fly with. Then said nevermind, guess I'll find out on my checkride.

As for the living with folks after high school comment...ouch. Probably a good thing you didn't FAIP, definately a good thing that not everyone thinks the same way you do. Personally I don't think anyone goes off to UPT to satisfy a lifetime desire to stay and teach UPT, I know I didn't. At the same time, I always enjoyed teaching. I didn't have a 20 year plan like the thread starter, but I was willing to do it. In my case, it came with a guarenteed follow on, one that I wanted. That was enough for me.