tweakk

Helloooo,

I'm 18, currently enrolled at Spartan College of Aeronautics & Technology finishing up my instrument rating and whatnot. I just have a pretty broad question about joining the military, of course to fly. I'm sure it's been covered in 100 threads, but I just want specific questions answered, so please bare with me

The question for me for a long time has been airlines or military. My absolute love would be flying a fighter, but coming from little money, the airlines always appealed to me as a good $$ maker. I'm definitely not in it for the money, however, so don't get the wrong idea there. I'm relatively inexperienced with the whole becoming a military aviator process and knowing first hand accounts of what it's like.

My current plans are to finish up all my civilian ratings (up to and including ATP) here at Spartan, where I'll also receive my Bachelors of Science/Aviation Technology Management. My question to you guys is, what would be the steps I would have to take in order to become an aviator in the military. Would I be required to go to some cadet/rotc school? Would I be placed ahead, if at all, of pilots who start from scratch with the military? If so, approximately where would I be placed? What are the requirements in passing the practical written exams and basically what kind of information do those cover? (If possible, if there are any study materials for taking this test, I would like to go ahead and get those and start my studying early). How does the classroom instruction for military aircraft differ from... like me studying, familiarizing myself with anything and everything in civilian aviation?

I see USMCFLYR is the resident hornet?? pilot and fighter pilot guru, and this post was meant to be a PM to him, but I guess since this is a new account, I'm still on a probation period. If anyone has some input or can help me out a little on these questions, I'd be grateful. Feel free to elaborate on anything you may think pertains to what I'm interested in because I've got a lot of questions, these are just to get me started :P

Thank you in advance

Oh, just a little more to add. I don't have a preference on which branch I'd like to fly for, but from what I hear, the Air Force is the way to go. I hope you guys can enlighten me on that too. My number one goal is to fly a fixed wing fighter (F/A - 18, F-15 etc), but I'm also open to flying helos, I'm just not sure of the transition of all my civilian fixed wing flight experience to helos.

Thanks again

XL0901

Your experience might give you a slight advantage during pilot training but that will be only short lived. They don't push you ahead based on your past. First thing you would have to do is find a commisioning source. For the AF that would be ROTC or OTS. Either way a pilot slot is not guaranteed. The Navy/USMC has some programs with "promised" slots but I'm not sure how realistic they are. I did a 4 year aviation degree and although I had a good time doing it, in the end the only that separated me from my AF pilot friends was a lot more debt. The military is going to retrain you anyway. So your ratings don't carry a whole lot of weight. I could have had an English degree and still ended up in the same place. UPT is unlike anything you will do in the civilian world. Sometimes it becomes more of a test of wills rather than a test knowledge. Whatever you decide to do stay open minded and don't think you have it all figured out just cause you have hours. I have seen guys with a thousand hours washout of UPT...and others with no time graduate top of their class. Also be prepared to fly something other than fighters. Fact is right now in the AF only about 10% of the class goes on to a fighter trainer and half of them never see a fighter cockpit. Definately get all the info you can and never miss an opportunity to talk about. I love where I'm at right now and even though that student loan payment is a B*t*h...I wouldn't change anything.

tweakk

^Replying to the both of you.

I didn't mean to come off sounding, "I'm a hardass, I have plenty of flight time, flight training will be a sinch." It meant to come off as, my dedication for flying is there. There are similarities in aeronautical knowledge that would give me a better base to start from than complete scratch.

And yeah, I've been shifting through other threads for the past hour picking up bits and pieces of info that pertain to info on what I want and it's all helping. I just feel like a got a better understanding having people reply directly to me :P

XL0901

No big deal...I was one of the guys with the hours and the ratings. It will help you some in instrument flying but military flying is different. A lot of things are the same but even something as basic as the definition of IMC is not the same as in the FAR/AIM. Not to mention the unique things like formation or low levels. You airmanship will help but the learning curve is so steep it won't take long for your peers to catch up with you. But that Baseops forum is a great resource for all you questions...that's where I looked.

FlyArmy

What they said. Also, look into the guard...then you could do both. As a side note, what are you going to do with your aviation major when you can no longer pass a medical. Just some food for thought...ensure you have a back up plan if flying ends up not working out for whatever reason. Lots of people put all their eggs into the pilot basket then get effed and have nothing to fall back on. You can major in just about anything and still be a military pilot or airline pilot...and still be able to get different jobs later in life. Or major in nothing and not even go to college and be an army pilot.

FWIW, all the people in my flight school class who had prior flight experience did better initially. I didn't really study much at all or do any homework through all of primary or instruments because it wasn't that much different (other than learning the rotary wing stuff). Then I took that same philosophy (which worked well initially) into my advanced aircraft/combat skills...big change. Don't get complacent because you know way more than everyone else. They'll learn it pretty quick and keep learning faster than you.

Roll Inverted and Pull

The absolute first thing to do is go to a flight surgeon and get a thorough...I say again...thorough first class physical. All is for naught if you can`t pass one without wavers. Good luck to you.

bunk22

Remember for the Navy and Marine Corps, the needs of the service come first. If you make the tailhook cut (50+ Navy Standard Score) and there are no tailhook slots available, you will get what is available. About 50% of all Navy pilots are helo pilots and about 75% of all Marine Corps pilots are helo pilots.

USMCFLYR

Would that be the Spartan in Tulsa OK or someplace else? I learned to fly out of Riverside and TUL myself. I went to Oklahoma State and graduated from the avaition program there. I hear things have changed.

Well you should be into the money some - you'll need it I understand your point though. I have learned a lot on this forum about the ups and downs of the career though. So take your time educating yourself about the career field. Military -vs- civilian? Well....either one - know what you are getting into. Might not be the same for all - but I am a believer that you join the military to serve your country (higher calling and all of that) and the flying part is just the **awesome** side of the job. All service members will usually have to just put up with a lot more than the flying part during their career.

Yes - your previous experience will help some. I'll give you my view of how it helped me. I had Comm/ME w/ instr rating and about 300 good training hours when I joined. In AI (now called API - ground school) and T-34s I was ahead because most of this was not NEW information. I wasn't awed by the sensation of flight. My early basic instruments sims weren't that hard. Quite a few people struggled in Instrument ground school and the RI sims/Flights; I just had to learn to do it the military way. I didn't tout my experience but if an IP asked I didn't lie of course. There were others with more experience than I and they did well too. By the time I got into jets - it was a level playing field. I had never flown a jet, at those speeds and do the type of things that we were doing - formation for example or FCLPs (carrier practice). My roommate had never even sat in a small plane prior to Fam-1 in T-34s and he was right there in the mighty T-2C Buckeye next to me - so your hard work (needs of the service and luck) determines the outcome.

I'm one of many of all types on here. I can help you more with the USN/USMC side of thing and have a basic knowledge of the AF side due to a few years of AFROTC and having friends in the AF and working with the AF throughout my career. Enjoy the vast expertise available to you here. Btw - almost every question you have asked is something already covered; but once you get enough posts and can PM - feel free to ask specific questions of me if you like.

Well...as has already been mentioned - there are pros and cons to every service and usually personality and desires will lead you to a service. One person said that 75% of Marine pilots are helo guys - and that is probably true (I don't know the current numbers but that is close to the historic average - of course Ospreys are out there now too). How will your fixed wing time help you in helos? It will help some but I've heard from my Helo friends that it is a whole different ball - and after my 1.5 hours in a CH-53A - I believe them! Btw - MiserDD is a CH-53 guy is you'd like to contact him as well.

Best of luck.

USMCFLYR

Rawhide16

Not true unless things have changed since I went through the process about 3.5 yrs ago. When you apply to OTS you're applying for a career field (ie pilot). The first rated selection board you may only apply for one job. If you're not selected your packet will automatically roll into the next rated seletion board. You may then choose to apply for a backup career field (ie navigator) in case you don't get selected for the first.

It's really tough right now for dudes that want fighters. An average UPT class is about 25 people with only about 2-3 active duty T-38's given out (fighter/bomber track). Out of those 2-3 that go T-38's, usually 1 gets FAIP'd and the other 2 have a shot at a fighter. There is always the chance that you will get a bomber or, nowadays, a U-28 (read Spec Ops PC-12), or even a UAV.

The application process takes some time so be prepared for that. As far as the civilian ratings and flight time goes, I had my CFII and about 900 hrs with about 70 hours SIC in a Citation before I started. I think it helped me quite a bit but it all depends on your attitude. If you go into UPT with the attitude that "I don't need to listen to the IPs, I already know this stuff" then you will washout. If you somehow manage to not washout, the IPs and your Flight Commander will make sure you get a crappy assignment because your attitude sucks.

I love my job and I'm glad I gave up my cush Citation gig to fly for the AF. There are times that I would love to go back to civilian flying because it's much less stressful but those times are few and far between.

Hope this helps. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions about the AF side. Good luck!

LivingInMEM

The same applies to the rest of the services, it just seems that more USAF officers (yes, you are an officer first) forget that than those of the other services.