That's right...they were MiG-21s. I forgot...I was too busy keeping up international relations. You know...

Plus... She is a civilian so you do not salute her!!!!!!

I will be here all week. Thanks.

 

I thought they were Mig 28s and that no one had gotten that close before.

Seriously, what is "post merge?"

Just watched the youTube of the 1989 Gulf of Sidra incident. Sounded pretty intense. I'll take my left-hand orbit and ILS full stop, thank you very much!

 

Is this a curiosity question, or some justification for or against the F-22? Plenty of the kills in Desert Storm were within visual range, as were Iraqi kills in post-Desert Storm Iraq and Kosovo. In case it isn't clear, the goal is to the kill the mostest the fastest, post-merge kills are not efficient as far as minimizing your fuel burn nor your exposure to an unknown additional threat.

Keeping it generic, the range at the kill depends on ROE and the ability to positively identify the other aircraft as a bad guy (more difficult than you would think). As the capabilities of our adversary increase, so do the difficulties in the BVR ID (use your imagination as to why). There are clearly scenarios that would result in a WVR fight and post-merge kills against those adversaries. While the F-22 is a very capable aircraft, advancements in capabilities of the weaponry and avionics of the F-15/16 have improved their WVR fights, also.

The best thing our leadership can do is to look REALISTICALLY" at the most probable worst case/high-threat/high-EA/high-numbers threat and develop a long-term fleet MIX that is best suited to handle that threat as well as the smaller scale more probable threats. The way that I look at it, 187 F-22's don't really match any of those threats.

 

If the U.S doesn't have the money to fund F22s do you think Russia and other "friendlies" have money to fund their stuff? Who knows what we're doing in the desert anyways.

 

call me crazy but yes.. I do. I believe that Putin will find a way. He had mentioned the fall of the wall being the most catastrophic event to international stability in modern history.

 

Just like North Korea has the money to fund nukes.... The people starve and the military builds.
Google China and see how they are building up their blue water Navy. Doesn't matter that the economy has taken a step back. They essentially announced we were the 'enemy'.
Putin is going for the old Soviet Union style. Guess you missed his bombers flying back over the US Navy at sea, etc. Oh well......

 

Yes they do. It doesn't take as much as you think. It doesn't have to be an F-22 equivalent. It has to be somewhat near our 4th gen fighters (designed in the 70s). I say again, this nation has no tolerance for losses. We can not tolerate a "parity" fight, and we're pretty close to that when you talk F-15 vs Flanker. Success to the bad guys is getting one dude through. Doesn't matter if we killed the other twenty. Success to us is getting everyone home. There's a big difference.

SAM sytems are cheap and they cover a lot of territory. One even somewhat modern system covering a high value target goes a long way toward neutralizing a ton of non-stealth assets.

Google SU-30MKK, AA-12, PL-12, SA-12, SA-20 and you'll get the idea.

 

From 2006;

"The People's Liberation Army Air Force is the largest military air force in the world with over 6,000 military airplanes and over 300,000 active personnel. The new PLAAF is updating its inventory of MiG-21 and MiG-19 copies with planned purchases of the advanced Russian made Sukhoi SU-27 FLANKER series and the newly developed J-10 strike fighter."

CHINESE AIR POWER - PEOPLE'S LIBERATION ARMY AIR FORCE

and,

"These Su-30MKKs are from 1st squadron of 54th Regiment of PLA Air Force 18th Air Division in Guangzhou Military District. It is first time that PLA display Russian R-77 AA missile in offcial media."

PLA Su-30MKK Fighters Training with R-77 Missiles|China-Defense-Mashup

They are building their fleets with modern equipment, and they aren't doing it just because they want to spend the money. There is a long-term goal that they have in mind, and we need to be prepared with a realistic fleet mix that can contain them. Quantity does indeed have a quality all its own. Even with all of our F22's in theater, if they throw a portion of their fighters at us, it won't be pretty.

 

Sure do...see Russia and China don't take the kinder, gentler approach to ruling their people.



People's Liberation Army Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let's not forget about the J-10.

Jian-10 (J-10, F-10) Multirole Fighter Aircraft - SinoDefence.com

Old but still valid.China: the Emerging Superpower

Little teaser from this link.

[As for the United States] for a relatively long time it will be absolutely necessary that we quietly nurse our sense of vengeance...We must conceal our abilities and bide our time.

- Lieutenant General Mi Zhenyu
Vice-Commandant, Academy of Military Sciences, Beijing

 

"Well this sucks! Maybe it will allow Lockheed time to develop a 6th gen fighter? Something with lasers would be cool."

Yes lasers would be awesome or some form of plasma containing weapon of destruction. How about Electro-Magnetic Rail guns that shoot metal slugs at ultra-insane velocities, like 100 times faster than a missle could ever achieve. I know the navy is consideriding that kind of technology for their next generation Destroyers it goes mach 7 velocity but maybe we can achieve mach 100 one day.

Electromagnetic Railgun | Popular Science