Questions: Pensacola T-6 IP job for AF types
08-25-2009, 02:22 PM
#1
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Questions: Pensacola T-6 IP job for AF types
I'm hearing that the Air Force is standing up a T-6/T-1 squadron at Pensacola; anyone in the know, feel free to answer. Is this SUPT or for nav training? What is Pensacola like compared to other UPT bases besides the fact that Pensacola NAS is not located in another God forsaken place (12 hour days, trip turn or not, less structured than UPT, fun factor? etc.)? Muchas gracias!
08-25-2009, 05:01 PM
#2
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Position: Retired Naval Aviator
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Originally Posted by 2loud
I'm hearing that the Air Force is standing up a T-6/T-1 squadron at Pensacola; anyone in the know, feel free to answer. Is this SUPT or for nav training? What is Pensacola like compared to other UPT bases besides the fact that Pensacola NAS is not located in another God forsaken place (12 hour days, trip turn or not, less structured than UPT, fun factor? etc.)? Muchas gracias!
With that said, Pensacola is not a bad place, relatively speaking. Especially summer time. The beach life rocks, plenty of bars to party and drank. I've had a blast out there, great times. It was my second choice to go back to and if the Kingsville gig falls through, I'm going back to P-cola. Not the K-ville is better..or Corpus but T-45C flying is better.
08-25-2009, 05:05 PM
#3
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USAF vs USN PNS Training
2loud:
I was in the Joint Program in the T-34C as an Air Force guy in a Navy squadron, and live in the area, so I have some perspective.
I've heard of the T-1 stand-up (nothing official), but not the T-6. Possible, but not sure it is necessary, as they have T-6s in the joint squadron. The rumor is for this to happen at mainside Pensacola, which is exclusively Nav training (Whiting Field does all the pilot training).
Lots of guys liked the joint op as it was shorter days and less hectic, and since it was Nav training, lots of stick-time. The Air Force brass didn't like it as Navigator students took longer to graduate (and cost more money) than UPT students!!
So, keep in mind, if they stand up an Air Force squadron, it will probably be just as time-line-intensive as any UPT base.
Pensacola is a pretty low cost-of-living area. Biggest downside for me is the threat of hurricanes 6 months out of every year (and yes, we get tornados, too).
On the flying side: I didn't like the "free-for-all-food-fight" for airspace. Having learned the USAF way (assigned airspace in a MOA), it was unnerving--and often a waste of time--trying to find a working space that someone else wasn't using. You would literally drive to someplace in the Alert area, announce your intentions on a common freq, and see if someone else had claimed it. There were days I spent 40 minutes just trying to find a place to work.
Then, I've had spins interupted by Delta MD-88s.
I can't see the USAF adding a MOA if they operate independently here, so it would be the same deal.
I was in the Joint Program in the T-34C as an Air Force guy in a Navy squadron, and live in the area, so I have some perspective.
I've heard of the T-1 stand-up (nothing official), but not the T-6. Possible, but not sure it is necessary, as they have T-6s in the joint squadron. The rumor is for this to happen at mainside Pensacola, which is exclusively Nav training (Whiting Field does all the pilot training).
Lots of guys liked the joint op as it was shorter days and less hectic, and since it was Nav training, lots of stick-time. The Air Force brass didn't like it as Navigator students took longer to graduate (and cost more money) than UPT students!!
So, keep in mind, if they stand up an Air Force squadron, it will probably be just as time-line-intensive as any UPT base.
Pensacola is a pretty low cost-of-living area. Biggest downside for me is the threat of hurricanes 6 months out of every year (and yes, we get tornados, too).
On the flying side: I didn't like the "free-for-all-food-fight" for airspace. Having learned the USAF way (assigned airspace in a MOA), it was unnerving--and often a waste of time--trying to find a working space that someone else wasn't using. You would literally drive to someplace in the Alert area, announce your intentions on a common freq, and see if someone else had claimed it. There were days I spent 40 minutes just trying to find a place to work.
Then, I've had spins interupted by Delta MD-88s.
I can't see the USAF adding a MOA if they operate independently here, so it would be the same deal.
08-25-2009, 05:33 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by bunk22
I do know that this Thursday, Whiting is getting their first two brand new T-6B Texan II's with the HUD/glass cockpit. Over the next few months, they will be getting more so that VT-3 will stand up and be the first to use them. VT-3 is the primary AF manned squadron though there are Navy/MC/CG as well. The front office rotates between an AF and Navy CO/XO.
You know of whom I speak Bunk!USMCFLYR
08-25-2009, 05:44 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
Not if you have to share airspace with them! 
USMCFLYR
USMCFLYR
Shack, well said!
Although I always did question mutual use airspace in the TRACOM environment once I had enough experience to know better(student solos/midair potential etc.), the old addage of thats the way we do it so let's continue to do it seems to work for the most part but certainly could be done a bit different. For those that question that environment because of the AF upbringing I would submit it's just what you're used to. USN/USMC training and fleet squadrons alike generally utilize mutual use airspace in addition to exclusive use airspace. It provides alot of flexiblity to OPS shops for 1v1, FCF, FAM/FORM type flights. Arguably it's next to impossible to work AIC in that type of airspace so we tend not to do that. The TRACOM environment in my experience as a student and as an IP at the FRS level is so fluid and changes so often that 'hard scheduling' that many sorties in assigned airspace invariably becomes a train wreck especially when competing with multiple squadrons/wings for that airspace. Sure it could be managed better at the ODO level but generally it seems to work.
08-25-2009, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BDGERJMN
Shack, well said!
Although I always did question mutual use airspace in the TRACOM environment once I had enough experience to know better(student solos/midair potential etc.), the old addage of thats the way we do it so let's continue to do it seems to work for the most part but certainly could be done a bit different. For those that question that environment because of the AF upbringing I would submit it's just what you're used to. USN/USMC training and fleet squadrons alike generally utilize mutual use airspace in addition to exclusive use airspace. It provides alot of flexiblity to OPS shops for 1v1, FCF, FAM/FORM type flights. Arguably it's next to impossible to work AIC in that type of airspace so we tend not to do that. The TRACOM environment in my experience as a student and as an IP at the FRS level is so fluid and changes so often that 'hard scheduling' that many sorties in assigned airspace invariably becomes a train wreck especially when competing with multiple squadrons/wings for that airspace. Sure it could be managed better at the ODO level but generally it seems to work.
Although I always did question mutual use airspace in the TRACOM environment once I had enough experience to know better(student solos/midair potential etc.), the old addage of thats the way we do it so let's continue to do it seems to work for the most part but certainly could be done a bit different. For those that question that environment because of the AF upbringing I would submit it's just what you're used to. USN/USMC training and fleet squadrons alike generally utilize mutual use airspace in addition to exclusive use airspace. It provides alot of flexiblity to OPS shops for 1v1, FCF, FAM/FORM type flights. Arguably it's next to impossible to work AIC in that type of airspace so we tend not to do that. The TRACOM environment in my experience as a student and as an IP at the FRS level is so fluid and changes so often that 'hard scheduling' that many sorties in assigned airspace invariably becomes a train wreck especially when competing with multiple squadrons/wings for that airspace. Sure it could be managed better at the ODO level but generally it seems to work.
Off Beaufort/Oceana - there was mutual use airsapce - but the Wing/MAG tried to schedule that airspace by squadron so it was *somewhat* scheduled and you could work around. Then there was the hard scheduled exclusive use areas (the Xray areas) where as the Yankee areas were always mutual use. Out here in the *weird* coast and the R-2508 airspace it is how UAL T38 explains - just first come, first serve, grab what you can, and work around everyone else airspace. YUCK!
Almost weekly hazreps and or stories to share about NMACs and close calls or work arounds.
USMCFLYR
PS - that explanation wasn't for you BDGERJMN, I know that you know how it all works
08-25-2009, 08:01 PM
#10
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Posts: 238
Whiting has indeed gotten there first T-6II, not at all a bad thing. It just looks right, finally seeing those navy guys getting rid of those ancient T-34's and getting into this century. I would have to easily agree that getting based at Pcola NAS or whiting is a much better lifestyle than somewhere like Vance or Corpus.
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